I was watchng those Phillip and Beth clps yesterday LOL. LOVED JE's Beth as she played her as u all posted and she also could be quite haunting, especially aftr Bradley raped her

Offensive, and again, not at all rooted in character. No way in hell would JE's Beth have hooked up with a low-life thug such as Carl, not after what she went through to get herself and Lillian away from Bradley.

I similarly had problems with Phillip abandoning his wife and daughter. Both Grant and Beth should've been rehired at the same time.

I similarly had problems with Phillip abandoning his wife and daughter. Both Grant and Beth should've been rehired at the same time.

I agree with this... didn't Phillip and Beth usually work as a team, or was that Beth and Lujack? I seem to recall that if either of them were in crisis then the other person would step up to support/help them up. If Phillip were serious about finding out who framed him, then I think Beth would have been glad to help him especially since that whole event caused great upheaval for both of them, imho.

I think it was a little of both. Judi Evans didn't portray Beth as the typical, dewy-eyed, sweet-as-sugar heroine, and the writers responded to it.

Since I didnt watch the show when Beth was first introduced.. was she introduced as the typical sweet-as-sugar heroine.. and when the writers saw how JE played the part, they changed how they wrote her?

One, I don't think "vixen" or "neurotic bitch" were BC's strong suits;

I thought BC's strongest suit was when they had Beth doing the corporate stuff.. and I especially liked it whenever they had Beth being sarcastic.. which I thought BC played very well.

While I could buy JE playing Beth as an artist type, I couldnt buy BC as that... but I could certainly buy her working in the corporate world, imho

The only Beth I ever really knew was the beautiful but deeply damaged, neurotic, self-destructive woman who dated a slew of lunatics and always, always dumped the good guys for more freaks. They wrote her to be a real flake in the Rauch era when she was after Vanessa or whatever, haranguing her about being too old for Matt. I don't know who they thought that would appeal to. But she reminded me of some women I knew around my family - beautiful, well-heeled and utterly off-keel - it was a little too real. I've never had much sympathy for Beth, but the character is fascinating.

The only Beth I ever really knew was the beautiful but deeply damaged, neurotic, self-destructive woman who dated a slew of lunatics and always, always dumped the good guys for more freaks.

And that's just...sad. If you had seen more of the real Beth Raines, I think you would've liked her, or at least have tolerated her better.

How long did Jim and Martha Frazier last on the show? Did they have story or friends?

You can see a little clip of the first Jim, I think, in some 1965 or 1966 GL clips that are on Youtube. Both roles were recast, but mostly they were just friends, I guess of Leslie or Ed.

1992 Christmas episodes. End of an era.

are the Fraziers in these videos or something??

Jim is.

You can see a little clip of the first Jim, I think, in some 1965 or 1966 GL clips that are on Youtube. Both roles were recast, but mostly they were just friends, I guess of Leslie or Ed.

1992 Christmas episodes. End of an era.

Maureen's last Christmas. I remember watching this episode and now in rewatching, the anvils were dropping all over the place..."I don't know how I got so helpless with out my wife!" Poor Ed, soon to be as much of victim of her death as Maureen was. And I didn't remember that Lillian wrote the infamous letter on Christmas Eve....JFP was a real sick customer wasn't she?

Other thoughts, the show was already suffering from JFP fatique at this time, as Bev had left (Alex had not yet come back) and KS' Mindy was gone also. Liked seeing both Ehlers and Frankie D younger and working with better writing. Ehlers was not harsh and brittle here (and fuller faced) and Frankie D was not acting as a stuffy middle aged windbag. The writers too their credit understood his limitation and wrote Frank as a sweet, good natured normal guy instead of as SF's top cop, which Frankie D was not good at. Forgot that Derwin was actually hot, and HATED the stupid attic storyline. Made everyone just look dumb. (though loved Nadine's selfish "Cheer up its Christmas ," )

In the clip, I thought that Billy Dee Williams was extremely good in the role of Dr. Jim Frazier. Who is playing Dr. Joe Werner? Is it the late actor and writer Ed Zimmerman?

I believe that is the actor before Zimmerman, but I'm not sure.

In that clip, Joe Werner was played by Ben Hayes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4niuA0W8sAQ

Thank you! I remember Zimmerman, but I could not tell if there were him because of the glasses.