The Politics Thread

[DramatistDreamer]

I am also a child of immigrants who arrived legally as well but I also recognized that we have people who are already here, not going anywhere and the status quo, with many remaining in the shadows is just not a sensible approach as well as unsafe for national security.

Money has been going to secure the border and apparently, like $$$ going to Afghanistan and Iraq, will never be enough. I wonder how much waste may be at issue? While illegal immigration from Mexico has slowed, the numbers coming from the Central American countries like Guatemala and El Salvador have increased because of gang and drug violence at play. Like I mentioned with Ebola, how can we hope to ensure that the U.S. is safe from more cases unless we help tackle the issue where it lives and breathes? Perhaps leaders of these countries need to be pressed to serious tackle the issues of gangs and flow of drugs? Perhaps buyers of those drugs (Americans being some of the best customers) should realize that their drug habits are financing this violent vicious system and stop subsidizing it?

But the people who are already here, some of whom are here for decades, have families and many of whom work for American companies-- what do you propose we do with them? I mean, realistically?

By the way, these American companies who can hire the undocumented for rock bottom wages are the same ones that fight raising the minimum wage for Americans who are here legally and have the nerve to demand a living wage for a full day's work.

And by the way, the system is incredibly backlogged now and has been so for about 15-20 years (I personally know someone who waited at least 12 years to come here legally). Perhaps fixing the system of visas, might go some way to remedying this? How is doing a piecemeal proposal going to clear all of these roadblocks with a system that has been dysfunctional for at least 2 decades?

People seem to forget that Ronald Reagan, that great bastion of conservative values, set the precedent in motion granting amnesty. Was there a threat of a government shutdown when he did it, no doubt through Executive Order?

Edited November 14, 2014 by DramatistDreamer

[marceline]

That's what keeps bothering me about the discussion around immigration reform. Where is the punishment for people who hire these folks? We're willing to take everything away from people fleeing violence but where's the same targeting of companies that hire these people?

[JaneAusten]

Because most of these companies don't want immigration reform because they get the illegals for low wages and these companies likely have politicians in their back pockets also.

In all fairness there are penalties for companies employing illegals but a very small percentage are reported, fined, and held accountable, just enough for people to not complain too loudly about what they do to enable the problem.

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

I hope the President enjoys those impeachment proceedings....this is going to be an absolute disaster.

[DramatistDreamer]

...and we know what happened to the last President who was impeached. Bill Clinton, whose legacy was ultimately in tatters is practically in hiding...quelle horreur! Right? Am I right? Hm, no? Guess impeachment isn't what it used to be in the days of Andrew Jackson. I guess McConnell and crew will have to stick with their own standby--holding votes on the ACA for the 50th time instead of passing actual legislation. Or their 2nd stated option--initiating a lawsuit.

Wow, none of these options will be a huge waste of the American people's time and tax dollars, especially impeachment preceedings...because it worked so successfully last time. I mean, it put Bill Clinton down for 2 good weeks.

Edited November 15, 2014 by DramatistDreamer

[marceline]

LMAO! I know right? Impeaching Obama would all but guarantee record turnout of black voters in 2016.

I just wish people understood how much of the people's money gets wasted with these shenanigans.

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

That's fine but his place in history will still be tarnished. The first African American president....also gets himself impeached for no reason. Perhaps it doesn't matter to you but it does matter to me.

Forget the political ramifications....I'm not arguing it's a winner for the Republicans (although I do think it would drive Republican turn out as well)

[marceline]

I don't think it will tarnish his legacy. It will simply be another example of America's history of racism. Sort of akin to how Nelson Mandela was imprisonment doesn't make him look bad so much as what South Africa was at the time.

[Money]

The threat of another government shutdown is insane to me but then I read an article where a GOP rep stated Americans voted for us inspite of the shutdown last year so we're not concerned about their reactions if another one were to take place. And really, why should they? Those who did not vote and those voted Republican have really short memories. I'm so tired of this immigration issue because it shouldn't be one. If the GOP don't want Obama to proceed with immigration reform then, [!@#$%^&*], do like he's been practically begging them to do and come up with a bill that supersedes his executive action. Republicans love to focus on Mexicans and the border since they're such an easy target, never mind most of the illegals in this country are folks who came legally on a plane and overstayed their visas, especially from white European countries. That never gets talked about because Obama is too inept to make it a part of his defense.

I've always found the influx of those migrant kids sneaking across the border earlier suspect. When polls were conducted before the influx most Americans favored immigration reform and true to form those very people are now against it.

If GOP were smart they should at least give the pretense of catering to the Hispanic vote since they'll need them in 2016. They don't have to grant amnesty but give concessions since 1) self deportation will never happen. 2) Attempting to deport 12 million people is stupid 3) Millions of dollars are being circulated among illegals because they cannot legally pay taxes and they're ciphering back all the money they've earned back to their home countries. Since Republicans think they can win without them then the impeachment scare tactics will continue.

[Juliajms]

I'm not so sure about this. Aren't lots of illegals using fake Social Security numbers, so that they are paying in, but not able to collect? As for income tax, I doubt there are that many farm workers making enough to pay it in the first place, especially not once deductions are in place.

I guess I'm one of the few people who just doesn't feel strongly about this issue. It could be beneficial as a means to slow the "greying of America." There are probably social problems that will be exacerbated by it as well, but that's always been true.

I didn't forget and if I didn't already suspect that amnesty will serve corporate America more than it will the working/lower middle class, this is how I'd be sure. I'm still not against it though because although I sympathize with the poorest among us, the status quo (which is what this is, imo) has worked well enough for me.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Juliajms

[marceline]

So the Senate voted down the Keystone XL pipeline. I really didn't think they would do that. That said, I'm disgusted by the Democrats - most of whom lost their seats in the midterms - who decided to sell out and support this thing. I'm beyond done with blue dogs. I hope Landrieu gets trounced in her runoff.

[DRW50]

A timely commentary on the world's politics, even if it was about Thatcher:

I wonder if or when the UK will get another female prime minister. Clegg, Miliband, and Cameron are all so widely disliked and seen as fake and inept that I keep expecting someone new to break through. Sadly, it seems to be from UKIP.

Speaking of Miliband - as a recent radio interviewer said, it's no wonder The Thick Of It is long gone when this type of thing is real life:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ed-miliband/11201824/Ed-Miliband-accused-of-looking-awkward-while-giving-money-to-beggar.html

[Juliajms]

I've read articles saying that by the time this thing passes, it might not be economically desirable any more. I don't really know if that's true, but I sure as hell hope so.

[Juliajms]

This Ohio heart beat abortion law is disturbing. I don't even know how this kind of nonsense manages to pass. It just wastes tax payer money when it's challenged.

http://news.yahoo.com/ohio-heartbeat-abortion-bill-gets-panels-ok-172324620.html

[quartermainefan]

Obama's place in history is secured: He is the first black president. Other than that he will not be seen as a terribly great nor terribly poor president. He tried to accomplish his agenda, he had terrible relations with congress, got saddled with a terrible crisis, and in the end he did the best he could. He won't be up there with FDR or Lincoln, if that is what you hoped might happen.