The Politics Thread

[DRW50]

Any thoughts on the NJ Senate race? Cory Booker generally seems like all hat, no cattle to me. I know the media is there to help the Republican but I'm still baffled that he is running this close against an extremist Tea Party guy.

[quartermainefan]

What? The media loves Cory Booker and they anointed him a star seemingly years ago. I don't pay attention to that race because he will just have to run again a year from now, but from what I read he is not running the best campaign, he is rumored to be gay and doesn't want to admit it, and he probably needs a little more experience running a campaign. His star power is what will win it, but from recent reports his no-name opposition is closing the gap. NJ is a messed up state and it doesn't make a difference what party they pick from, they usually pick a crook or some other deeply flawed candidate. Chris Christie may be a big mouthed blowhard but he knows how to please the people. It's funny, the conservatives shun Chris Christie as not being a real republican, and he is the one with a 70% approval rating. You would think the republicans would look at Christie, look at their star Senators and decide it was time to change course, but no.

[Max]

I think that Sharpton and Warren are the "thought leaders" of the Democratic base in a way that the Clintons and Obama no longer are. Sharpton has pretty much become the spokesman on issues of importance to the African American community over the past year, whether it is the Zimmerman verdict or stop-and-frisk. (He has essentially been embraced by the mainstream progressive leadership at the very moment he got his show on MSNBC.) While I am certain that he cares deeply about these issues, he is so offensive to many people, not only because of bigoted comments he made in the past, but also because of the whole Tawana Brawley fraud (which I think is far worse than the bigotry) that happened to make him a household name.

In spite of his influence, you're correct that Sharpton could never win a Democratic presidential primary. I really feel differently about Elizabeth Warren. I do think that she would be unlikely to beat Hillary, but it is possible because many in the base (despite feeling deep personal affection for the Clintons) are less than enthused about Hillary's politics. (And although it is "Hillary's turn," that type of thinking sometimes creates a backlash among the liberal base.) However, if Hillary doesn't run, the race becomes a whole new ball game; the three main players will be Andrew Cuomo (who will represent the moderate, Clinton wing of the party; he won't run if Hillary enters the race), Joe Biden, and Warren. You mentioned that Biden is ahead of Warren in the current polls (which are very early in the game); the problems for him are (1) that his base of blue-collar, white voters play a much smaller role in Democratic politics than they did thirty years ago and (2) a good portion of his lead is due to better name recognition. Warren has only been in Washington for a year and is within a couple points of the current Vice President. She has progressive enthusiasm on her side and (I believe) has already raised more money than Biden; if Hillary isn't in the race, she will raise even more money. (Regarding Cuomo, it certainly can be said that he will raise a lot of money. However, I think that he is too moderate to win the nomination, and his ideology isn't counterbalanced with deep personal affection or being next in line, the way it is with Hillary.)

Regrettably Ted Cruz is the leading thought leader among the GOP base, but I at least see some mainstream Republicans publicly stating that they are opposed to the government shutdown. Among them are John McCain, Mitt Romney, Chris Christie, and Peter King. (Rep. Devin Nunes, who is not nearly as well known as the others I listed, has gone on record stating that 200 GOP House members are pissed with the extreme wing of the party and oppose shutting down the government.) It's highly unfortunate that more people aren't speaking up, but I just don't see any Democrat confronting Sharpton or Warren. (Well, Democrats once didn't want to be associated with Sharpton, but those days have long since passed. And the president withdrew his own choice to run the Fed--Larry Summers--once Warren led the charge to replace him with somebody more progressive, Janet Yellen. What is so ironic about this is that Obama caved into his base even though that is the exact same thing that Democrats alleged McCain and Romney would do if they were elected president.)

I'm also sick and tired of the Breitbart fringe suggesting that those who oppose the government shutdown are RINOs who support Obamacare. The truth is that because of the government shutdown craziness, the flaws of Obamacare are being put on the news backburner. It had a very flawed rollout (full of glitches) on the first day. And, of course, we have companies (such as UPS) dropping health care for their own workers. (Of course, many progressives have brushed this criticism off by saying "greedy companies were going to drop health care anyway.") Small business are hurt even more than big ones; they are already looking for ways to reduce their workforce to less than fifty people. Furthermore, individuals are being forced to switch their existing insurance plans. (This includes myself; I received a letter from Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield of New Jersey stating that I can no longer be in their plan because Obamacare "requires [all] health insurance plans to meet certain minimum requirements based upon deductibles, copayments and maximum out-of-pocket limits.")

Some in the GOP need to realize that the way to amend or overturn the Affordable Care Act does not involve shutting the government down, but rather means that we have to elect a Republican Senate and president. And I am tired of of the president saying the Republicans have no health care plan of their own. Congressman Tom Price recently proposed his own plan:

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/president-disingenuous-when-he-says-gop-has-no-alternative-obamacare

And if one wants a truly bi-partisan plan (which Obamacare never was, as even the most moderate Republicans such as Dick Lugar, George Voinovich, Olympia Snowe, and Susan Collins couldn't even support it), then the health care reforms proposed by Senators Ron Wyden and Robert Bennett should be re-considered. (I'm sure that many progressives wouldn't care for these plans--as some progressives have stated that even Obamacare isn't progressive enough--but to suggest that there are no Republican ideas is unfair.)

Edited October 6, 2013 by Max

[DRW50]

Media does their false equivalency routine yet again. This has done such damage to America.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/white-house-aide-pushes-back-against-reporter-s-false-equivalence-on-debt-limit

[Roman]

This is the reason why I stayed out of this thread.

[DRW50]

These people run our country

http://azcapitoltimes.com/news/2013/10/07/state-representative-stands-by-her-comparison-of-obama-to-hitler/

[marceline]

This sentence made me sad for you, Max. Truly, deeply, genuinely sad.

[Max]

Marceline, I appreciate that you responded to me in a thoughtful manner. If you feel that the Clintons and President Obama currently have more influence over the Democratic base than Warren and Sharpton, I would love to read your articulate response. (I'll admit that because of the dumbo Tea Party, Democrats have rallied around the president in recent weeks, but prior to that his influence had been on the wane with progressives, because of Syria and because of his controversial choice to lead the Fed.) While Sharpton's appeal doesn't really extend beyond African Americans, one has to remember that they are the most loyal part of the Democratic base. He is so beloved by many in the black community (and to his credit, does eloquently give voice to the major black concerns, despite all his other flaws), that no white Democratic politician wants to look at his past and ignore him. Elizabeth Warren has become the progressive champion of the party, because she articulates the frustrations of many in the base who feel that the president hasn't been progressive enough (whether it is in regards to health care or consumer protections or wall street regulations). On the other hand, Obama's influence is a lot less than it once was (a phenomenon that happens to all presidents in their second terms). The base seems to only rally around him when the GOP attacks Obamacare or does something senseless like shutting down the government. The Clintons may be beloved by all Democrats, but their policy influence mostly extends to the moderates, and not to the progressives. The fact that progressives are supporting Hillary's candidacy is most likely due to her electability, as they were strongly opposed to her campaign in 2008.

I may disagree with it, but I can understand why some may feel that Warren and especially Sharpton are not as influential among the base as are Obama and the Clintons. However, I just think it is beyond debate that Sharpton and Warren play a highly influential role in the party.

Edited October 8, 2013 by Max

[DRW50]

Sharpton has never played a major role in the party. His role in the black community has long been fairly divisive. I think in recent years he's become more prominent because he's avoided scandal and stopped being as publicity hungry, while some of his peers, like Jess Jackson, have fallen into a slump. But even with that, I don't think he is a major influence. I think there's something of a void, which is why you had Tavis Smiley and others trying to take some voice.

[DeeeDee]

There isn't a void (there never was).

The mainstream media has yet to crown a new black king.

[Roman]

It seems to me that the only person some want to bring up is Al Sharpton. The man is a advocate for everyone in this country regardless of race creed or sexual preference, yet that somehow means we who enjoy him should vilify him. On top of that, those who never have a kind word to say about the man either can't come up with anything they don't like to prove their point or that go back 35 years to the Brauwly incident.

That's why I just find those people funny. They are still being hateful for really no reason, especially to the POTUS because they can't stand the fact a black man is president.

sad really.

[Wales2004]

I was watching a sports talk show discussion about the Washington Redskins and it reminded me how backwards America's conversations about racial matters tend to be. Participants seem to always begin with "I'm not" black, white, Jewish, Native American.....fill in the blank. No one ever seems to believe that they might be able to understand how another human being might feel about anything at all because they can only experience things through "racial emotions" or "ethnic emotions" or whatever other label gets slapped on.

Now I suppose that many black American voters are Democrats based on that party being less hostile to black Americans than the Republican party. It makes sense that a person would affiilate would the party that seemed less offensive to that individual and the Democrats are inclusive in their platforms/agendas (at least on the surface).

I don't know where you get the impression that all the black Americans love Al Sharpton though. And to what major black concerns does he eloquently give voice? I'm not sure why he even has a show on MSNBC as he has so much trouble reading the teleprompter and his timing is terrible. He's an example of the media trying to dictate to the public what the public supposedly wants.

Think of it this way, do you believe any similarly skinned stranger on the street knows you better than you know yourself? Do you believe that you and all the similarly skinned people in the nation, the state in which you reside, or even the street on which you reside, share all of the same values, beliefs, likes/dislikes, personal goals, interests, etc.? If not, is it really that hard to believe that black people aren't some sub-humans devoid of independent thought and feelings who don't all share the same hopes, dreams, etc., other than those who simply want to be treated with respect and as if they are capable of the same type of emotions, thoughts, et al that you are?

[Wales2004]

A few years ago I was listening to the radio in my car and I heard Al Sharpton (who was the guest on a radio show) say that there was nothing worse than preaching the funeral of an irrelevant negro.

I was put off by this because I don't happen to beleive that any person is irrelevant and is worthy of a decent burial, if that is their desire. Now had he been talking about criminals, et al,. then I would understand his point but I cannot...... But then again, Al Sharpton has never been my cup of tea so that only turned me further in the opposite direction.

Is he helpful to some people? Sure.

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

Max I think you may be right about Elizabeth Warren. Her thoughts and her voice are definitely important in the Democratic Party and especially among the base. The truth is that Senator Warren does represent a real, significant portion of the Democratic Party. However Al Sharpton is nothing more than a guy with a tv show which gives him a big microphone. He's not influential. His endorsement means nothing. His opinons aren't that significant.

But tne President and Hilary do represent a major part of the Democratic Party and their ideas are also my ideas. So I think Hilary is going to be fine.

My problem with Shapton is that whole Bradley situation and the fact that he has this television show on MSNBC that he completely does not deserve. I'd rather see Toure have that slot or another intelligent young black man who can actually articulate liberal ideas and have a legit discussion with people from the right and/or left.

Bottom line though is that the Republican Party may maintain control of the House but if Dems hold onto the Senate then its game over or 2016.

[DRW50]

George Will is an embarrassment to our country, yet again.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/george-will-compares-obamacare-to-fugitive-slave-act-segregation

Meanwhile, I would point and laugh at every dipshit who throws a fit when the media or Republicans don't mention Obamacare as the evil of evils, but these people have too much power.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/conservatives-furious-that-ryan-didn-t-address-obamacare-in-debt-proposals