The Politics Thread

[DRW50]

The few headlines I saw online basically said "Trump apologizes," then went on to talk about his attacks on Bill. So it looks like a lot of his spin is being bought. Sadly a lot of voters will put up with all sorts of abuse and hatred toward women, and with a month to go a collective tsk-tsk and how dare you from the GOP establishment might be enough if he keeps pushing with the idea that these are just words and there are "real world" matters to focus on. 

 

What won't work is making it about Bill Clinton, a frail man whose scandals were over 15 years ago and who hasn't been high-profile enough in this election to successfully sell the idea that he = Hillary. Going on about Hillary enabling him or attacking women isn't going to do much good either, because no one outside of the biggest Hillary haters will believe Trump over her on the subject of harassment and abuse of women. 

 

I can see why his people don't want any Clinton talk. At best it will encourage some to vote for neither (which is still a very tempting option for many voters). At worst it will just make Trump look like a deluded, nasty toddler of a tyrant. 

 

If he drops the Bill stuff and the media keeps pushing the false "apology" narrative, he'll probably skate, especially since the expectations for the town hall are nonexistent and the media wants a close race. 

[dragonflies]

LOL he doesn't want to be judged for something that long ago, but he's still bringing up stuff BC did like 20 years ago. Yeah this just  makes him look more pathetic

 

[Vee]

 

Carl, I just...

 

You know I like you. And I like almost no one around here. But you are so utterly and completely wrong that I have got to stop you and call this out for what it is. It's just wrong.

 

No one has bought this that was not already voting for Trump.

 

No one in the press is pushing it other than maybe a few people on Fox News. What you're describing is people reporting his pathetic replies. That's reporting, that's not going with the spin. No one has done that.

 

CNN, MSNBC, every outlet is disgusted not only by him but by his 90-second 'apology' video. None of them are protecting him. None.

 

He has been soundly condemned. Paul Ryan has banished the presidential nominee of his own party from a major state event planned for both of them. Multiple seated Republican representatives are now publicly calling for his dismissal.

 

We are in Day 2 of this. Every single outlet out there but Fox is basically calling the election over. Almost no one on reputable media in North America is doing what you describe. This is an apocalypse for him. It is history and the likes of which has never been seen before.

 

I realize you are a pessimist. I realize this is a difficult time in a difficult world. I know all too well just how frustrating our media and our political system can be and I give it very little credit. But there are times when one must step back and consider if they are enabling the opposition, or giving it more credit for cunning than it deserves, just by preempting their victory or salvation with a presumption of such.

 

You have to ask yourself if, after a certain point, by so swiftly dismissing the potential consequences of this that you are almost indirectly, implicitly dismissing the gravity and weight of the actual horrific things done and said. I know that's not ever what you intend to do. But it is what sometimes plays. This isn't something where half of us are saying one thing and the other half is saying another so who knows. This is everyone.

 

I love you to death, but you're wrong and the way you shrug it off upsets me. This is real, it's huge, it's nuclear and you can't shrug it off and say the ills of our media will make it go away. To do that marginalizes it, it normalizes him again - it's what the press did so often in the past when they said his people wouldn't care and it was 'just Trump' - and it gives Team Trump the impossible out they are praying for, whether you intend to or not. It's coming at the same thing from the other direction, and it is not what is happening with everyone else tonight.

 

Don't believe me? Turn on the TV.

Edited October 8, 2016 by Vee

[DRW50]

I've seen too many elections where horrific things are dismissed (2004 in particular) to believe it will be the deciding factor. There's a great deal of apathy out there, and beyond that, there are a great deal of people who will look at all of this and just say it's some "DNC plot" or "Clinton plot" or "media plot." They will handwave it. Not enough to give him a win (I think Hillary will win if things stay as they are), but enough to keep it close.

 

I just no longer believe there is a moment that will sink Trump and cause people to run fleeing. He's said and done a million things in the last year and a half, from making perverted comments about his daughter to calling millions of people rapists to mocking the disabled to belittling a POW for being captured and tortured. People always say it's the end and then it never is. I never thought Trump would get the nomination. Once he did, I stopped believing that he would ever truly be routed. He is a representation of something ugly and nasty and sick in America. He feeds on it, and they feed on him. And they have a great deal of power.

 

I don't believe I'm enabling anyone by posting my opinion on a message board. I doubt a voter here is basing their opinion on my comments. They can easily put me on ignore - I encourage them to do so if I am disturbing them.

 

 

[quartermainefan]

It's tough to say "this time he is through" because--like Dracula--he rises from the grave again and again.   This is the guy who went to the republican debate to say George Bush lied to start a war.   He told republicans that and they voted for him anyway.    I thought the mother of the dead soldier was enough to finish him but the country's dislike of Hillary just keeps him in.   This time though it isn't about a policy or an issue or some event, it just is a light on him as a person with no issue to hide behind claiming he isn't PC.    I suspect a lot of these republican women will just stay home, choosing to vote for neither.   That's fair, they aren't democrats but can't vote for him.  All you can do is stay I home if in their shoes. 

 

Ted Cruz must be seriously pissed.   He held out for so long and the minute he sells out Trump illustrates why he was holding out all that time.   Now Pence is the new conservative savior and Cruz is nowhere.   John Kasich should go on an "I Told You So" tour.   He won't do it, but this is the perfect time for Jeb to chime in and put the final nail in the coffin and say he too is voting for Hillary. 

[Juliajms]

I definitely feel like Trump's campaign is effectively over. So many Republicans are coming out and disavowing him, it's a joy to watch. Now his movement (God help us) is probably not over, I give you that Carl.  It's enough for me that he's not going to be President of our country this year or any other.

[Taoboi]

Now that I know what's going since I've been busy...

 

...TRUMP...

 

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[Vee]

 

But if we accept this premise, we still have to ask why he is losing by miles. And is about to lose by much more.

 

I remember 2004 well. It was crushing. But then we elected Barack Obama - twice. I didn't know we'd elect a black President in my lifetime. And that's just one example of an equal and opposite reaction. We're capable of great evil and great good, maybe in equal measure. That is just the reality of human life. You can either have a little faith in our shared humanity, or you can assume the worst will always win out. I think the facts demonstrably speak against that.

 

 

Edited October 8, 2016 by Vee

[marceline]

A lot of people keep waiting for him to say or do something that will turn off his supporters. That's never going to happen because his supporters see him as a mythical figure where the rules of society, history and decency don't apply. Trump's fanbase is more like a megachurch than a campaign. Or more accurately a cult. He's very Jim Jones in his way of making promises and acting like God is on his side. Anyone thinking that Trump can drive his supporters away is engaging in false hope and frankly I'm a little tired of the naiveté from some of my fellow lefties who seem to think this is a TV show where the villain gets taken down through some fatal error. That said, those people aren't the majority of the electorate. I've been genuinely heartened to see people on the other side of the aisle recognize Trump for the threat he is and put party to the side. The last time this country came together like that was 9/11.

 

As for the media, they've gotten a nice and necessary bit of schooling during this election but I think it's important to separate the entertainment media from journalists. Yes, most of it has been as Vee describes, glib and amoral, but a lot of journalists found their brains again. David Farnenthold deserves a Pulitzer for his investigative reporting this year. Newsweek has done some stellar work as has the NY Times even though it can't quite seem to step away from their Clinton hate. Print journalism seems to have rediscovered what its role is. Sadly electronic journalism is still in the dark *waves to Matt Lauer*

 

For me the real question is what happens after the election. Does the media go back to false equivalence or does dodging this bullet give them a new perspective? Will those who put country over party continue to do so or will they go back to business as usual?

[JaneAusten]

If Clinton wins decisively and I think she will, it will make a difference IMO. But unlike the democrats of old, the Clinton led version is not going to play nice guy. The word is the DNC is saving up all this data (the clips, words etc) of the current serving members of the GOP(Ryan, McConnell, McCain, etc..) for 2018. And in retrospect I believe they know that it's going to hurt them even more.  Once the Trump train moves on and sanity returns, I can't imagine most level headed Americans being ok with the GOP turning a blind eye to Russia tampering with our elections. And if anyone doesn't think the DNC isn't saving those nuggets is fooling themselves.I don't care if it's considered dirty, I am just happy that finally the democrats are not sitting back and letting the GOP run over them. Time will tell but I hope that they can keep people motivated, pissed etc to get these same people out to vote in 2018.

[Roman]

Scottie Hughes last night and Jack Kingston this morning DEFENDED this slimebag to the hilt. Scottie was indignant when Ana N. said the p-word, saying her 5 year old daughter was watching (while she was up at 2am EST) and Kingston said "This was ten years ago when Donald was a member of show business and was just speaking to the hollywood elite. But Bill Clinton.,...." Scottie said the same thing last night. Trump's name is on the ballot. it can't change to the best of my knowledge..but that's not my point. I am not so jaded to think this too shall pass. Erin Burnett read a story about a friend of hers where Trump took Tic Tacs and leaned in and almost kissed her on the mouth without her consent. That does NOT sound like the TVMSM at least is letting this slide....all the women on these networks are PISSED OFF. But..those republicans who say they won't vote for him IMO will still vote for him...because this party has been like this for decades. 

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

i have to agree with Vee. I know it's easy to be cynical about the media but all the networks are taking this very very seriously. I have yet to see any of them even pivot to a discussion bout Bill except for maybe 5 minutes (and then to say this is a ridiculous comparison by Donald Trump). 

 

 

This will have an impact on the race. One way or another and this is truly the "October Surprise". 

 

On a humorous note I just finished listening to Politicos podcast from Thursday and they all said there was no "silver bullet" that could finish him and that there would be no "October Surprise" for Trump. More evidence of just how terrible they are.

[Roman]

http://crooksandliars.com/2016/10/scottie-nell-hughes-no-woman-woke-today?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[DRW50]

My favorite argument was from the head of the Washington State GOP, who said his comments were only made when he was a Democrat. 

 

http://komonews.com/news/local/he-was-channeling-bill-clinton-state-gop-chair-blames-democrats-for-trumps-comments

[DRW50]

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/gop-insiders-donald-trump-comments-women-229337

 

They said it better than I did.

 

(the people who said "all straight men talk this way" made me wince - that's not true and it defames a lot of good men out there)