ALL: How to Break a Soap

[Y&RWorldTurner]

I got that exact same feeling when I was watching Swajeski's AW on SoapNet. If that was the most consistent the show had been post-Harding Lemay, then I can see why many claim the show was dying a slow and painful death its last 15 years or so.

Her writing is just blah, hallow, and uninspiring.

[Dan]

I'd actually go more towards Maeve Kinkead. I think Lillian's part in Maureen's death precludes her from taking her role on the show. It was also a HUGE mistake to kill off Sarah Shayne, who also could have filled the matriarchal role. All for what? To bring on that bitch Cassie. Lovely.

Especially now with the production changes. With Springfield now set in East Bumfuck, it makes no sense to have a multibillion dollar company setting up shop there, its CEOs holding conferences outside in some field. Not to mention the Spaulding takeover story has been done. to. death. It's getting about as ridiculous and incestuous as the "romances" now.

If that's the only story the writers can think of for them, just let the ENTIRE family go, with Beth in tow.

I agree, which was great because there was some pre-sainthood Harley in her. The one that married Alan-Michael to help him get his trust fund.

Somewhat agree with the newcomer part. But at least it would have made a lick of sense.

Not to mention that they eschewed the one pairing that could have worked with Dempsey: Blake/A-M. Keifer and Dempsey, I think, would have had amazing chemistry.

[All My Shadows]

100% word!

[jcar03]

DAYS: probably when they choose to kill off half the cast then brought them all back from the dead. People were really invested in that storyline and felt jipped when they all were alive. Though I still don't believe that was the intention of the storyline. Also DAYS inability to figure out a direction and stick with it over the last 10 years. It is hard for anyone to invest in a storyline when it is suddenly dropped.

[SFK]

What bothered me more than the unabortion itself is that the writers/tptb lacked the skill, patience, tenacity, smarts, b@llz, whatever you wanna call it to stick with this character and perhaps make us take to him instead of just throwing out the (unaborted)baby with the bathwater. That's why no one will EVER look back fondly on that mess of a sensationalistic storyline. It was only played as such. It lacked heart, it lacked emotion, hell, it lacked adequate SCENES with Josh and Erica. There is no reason why the child of Erica m'er f'ing Kane should be shipped out of Pine Valley save for an actor's choice to exit. The only son of ERICA KANE was tossed out like every other pretty boy on AMC for the last 15 odd years. Yes, many of us had a lot of trouble trying to accept this s/l and we needed a lot of convincing, but the show didn't even try. That's the kind of lazy storytelling that I can't respect, even moreso than a bad s/l to begin with. This isn't primetime where you have a 22 ep season, AMC had the time to try to work this character out. Soap fans have looonnng memories, we will never just forget about Josh even if we wish we could. So they at least could have cleaned things up as best as possible before he shipped out in such a lame @$$ way.

[dc11786]

Kinkead is another wasted talent, but I never understood the fascination with Matt and Vanessa. Weren't the more rabid members of their fanbase the precursors to the Manny and Jassie? I don't understand though why Lillian would be out just because she had an affair with Ed. It wasn't like she plotted to ruin the marriage. Maybe I'm missing the point.

And yet, I still haven't seen it done well. Go figure. Same goes with the annual mayoral election.

Marina was more entertaining as a goldigger, but once it was established Ben was broke Marina should have jumped ship. I didn't buy the Marina-Ben stuff or Beth and Bill or Danny and Cassie. A lot of the couples didn't work for me, but different strokes for different folks.

Oh, I thought the Jonathan reveal would have been fine, but I still think people would have been calling for Taggert's ousting by June 2003. Her work at "Loving" was inconsistent, which was permeating into "Guiding Light". I do remember at the start of the stalker storyline it was suddenly stated that REva was receiving letters for months despite the fact it was never mentioned prior to December. Also Alan seemed a little too baby crazy during the start of the Phillip/Olivia storyline. Overall though, the show was usually very consistent.

Blake-AM would have been great. Or AM and Dinah. Or AM and Olivia (instead of the nasty Olivia-Frank-Buzz triangel :yuck:) Dempsey had soo much potential, but I'm probably preaching to the choir.

Regarding the spoiler, I don't feel bad for the actor in question. When Pelphrey jumped ship, the show should have been his. He has enough talent to be the show's younger male lead, but he has yet to be paired with anyone interesting. I'm actually shocked he resigned with the show. Also, the storyline itself isn't what completely offends me, it is the manner in which the show pretends like it has been happening for months.

Sometimes I wonder if the only reason CBS keeps "Guiding Light" around is to figure out how to create a less expensive production model and once they perfect it, "Guiding Light" cast and crew will be ousted while Wheeler be kept around as a consultant in order to train the other EPs at CBS in the new method.

[Mitch]

I doubt that they would keep Wheeler around as a consultant...she isnt making the method work for her show, why would it work for anyone else?

I actually think that the production process could work..however, they needed to [!@#$%^&*] can Wheeler (maybe she can do internet promos for Lillith Fair) and bring in a young, energetic producer who actually knows how to work with those damn digital cameras. Have a Techincal Producer and a Creative Producer, one who knows the history and can stear the material. Hell, they could just use the Creative Producer as a the head writer and save money.

The only reason CBS is keeping GL around is that Wheeler keeps adjusting to the budget cuts. They were already to let the show go this summer but Wheelie begged and pleaded and cut the budget some more. My question is, if she cant do [!@#$%^&*] with the budget she has, what the hell can she do with even less. Just let them kill this monstrosity and then I want a respective of the show, followed by a half hour of producers and writers starting with JFP, apologizing to the audience for having a hand in killing GL It ends with Wheeler reciting every dumb ass decision she made for this show. Oh, and since I am dreaming, they can end it all by panning to a hospital room, (filmed the old way) and have Ellen Parker back to wake Maureen up out of her coma, with Ed by her side, and her saying "I had the weirdest delusions, Reva was cloned, Roger was dead..for real....Alex was a stalker and then a drug dealer, Michelle was involved with some really femmy mob guy whose mother was a drag queen, you abondened the family, Phillip was shot by Alan, and Springfield was transformed into Hooterville.! So none of this really happened and our friends, family and community are safe and normal (for them.)? Thank GOD!" End of show!

[Mitch]

"Kinkead is another wasted talent, but I never understood the fascination with Matt and Vanessa. Weren't the more rabid members of their fanbase the precursors to the Manny and Jassie? I don't understand though why Lillian would be out just because she had an affair with Ed. It wasn't like she plotted to ruin the marriage. Maybe I'm missing the point."

I dont think Lillian works because long time viewers still connect her to Mo' death. I personally think she is too weak and morally ambivialent. She let Bradely abuse her daugher (I know we are supposed to forget St. Lillian did that) and has supported and coddled Beth in every one of her lame brame schemes, from tyrying to get Phillip from Harley, to lying about the baby, to whatever crap they dream up for Beth to do. Plus, I dont think Buzz and Lillian work as a couple...its just not "there."

Mattessa were indeed the first Manny and Rassies and definatley was the reason they stopped writing for the couple. Matt is a hot piece of ass, but I feel Van would grow bored with him and he with her. I could totally get on board with Van and Billy being the new Ed and Mo..but I fear people think Van is too cold to be the matriach. I myself like it that Van can turn ice cold and kick ass at a moments notice, kind of like Kim Hughes during the Marland years.

The death of Mo could have worked if they had a replacement for Mo on the canvas. The show always had a strong matriachal figure around, and the show is lost without one. They should have brought in MS as Aunt Meta six months before the Mo death, or Bea Reardon, and had the comforting prescense during that dark time (and it WAS a dark time, it was written so well it actually was like a real death of someone you knew, it was almost painful in its realisim.) I think back to that great quote of Curlee, where she admited it was a mistake and that, "You can scare the hell out of the soap audience, but they have to be able to run out of the dark backyard, up the porch steps through the screen door to find Nancy Hughes backing cookies. With that you can do anything you want to them."

[MichaelGL]

I actually have a whole different view of EW's successful start on GL.

The whole Sebastian Hulce story to me seemed to be penned with the help of Lorraine Broderick who was on the writing team at the time. IMO it just seems to me that after she departed GL, things got out of hand story wise. I do actually get the Swajeski comparison because if I'm correct wasn't there a storyline involving magic keys involving Paulina and a character named Ian? Or was that under Peggy Sloane? But I digress Donna Swajeski has been on GL for years now, and I honestly don't see how she's helped GL. It seemed to me that as soon Broderick arrived there was more emphasis on the show's history, especially with the Holly/Sebastian SL. When she left, so did the character driven storytelling.

[MichaelGL]

Am I supposed to believe that Ellen Wheeler's country bumpkin town of Springfield is the same Springfield that is home to a neighborhood like 5th Street, or were the 1990s just a dream for me?

[Y&RWorldTurner]

I love that woman, and every quote I've been able to find of her is so reasonable and intelligent. I recall an interview with her and Stephen Demorest after Maureen's death where they said how much they regretted writing Maureen's death and alluded into the politics surrounding the decision. Of course, Jill Farren Phelps would go on to name Maureen's death as the "biggest MISTAKE of my career."

It's too late to save GL, I wish P&G would dig into their database and give the woman a f-ucking call and give her ATWT to write or something, it's clear, from what I've heard, that she's a major fan of the CBS soaps.

I recall her saying this about the decision to bring Roger Thorpe back. I guess Pam Long allowed her to contribute and pen those episodes:

And this about the creation of Nick McHenry:

[dc11786]

I agree what she is doing at the moment isn't working. I do believe though CBS has faith she will make it work. Why bring Susan Flannery in to direct if they didn't? "Guiding Light" has improved in terms of production. When the new model started it was completely awful. From what I've seen, the sound isn't as bad indoors and the outdoor scenes are pretty well done. I do wonder what will happen when it begins snowing.

I think CBS believes Wheeler IS the young producer who will make their shows work. Unfortunately, I don't see anyone new coming in. If Wheeler had been smart, she would have brought Jerry ver Dorn on to the writing staff when she dropped him to recurring. Both Ver Dorn and Crystal Chappell have openly expressed interest in writing and I think Wheeler is foolish to not indulge her underused cast members.

I still think blaming Lillian for Mo's death is fairly unreasonable. It takes two to tango and Ed Bauer was just as much at fault and I've seen people dying to have him return as the patriarch. A few years back, Rick delivered a rather nasty rant about Ed Bauer talking about how bad a father he was when they were initially planning on having Beth and Rick embark on an affair.

I think Lillian's moral ambiguity is what makes her the perfect choice for the matriarch. Bert Bauer spent nearly two decades playing a manipulative social climber who drove her husband to alcoholism and later into an affair with another woman. She plotted and schemed to see her husband succeed in the business world and would spread malicious lies about her family members. The idea Bert Bauer is some sort of saint only came about after Bill Bauer died. Suddenly, all her nastiness faded away and the focus was solely on seeing her family happy, which Bert had always been loyal to despite her tendency to be morally ambigious.

I don't really like the Coopers as a family. They are rather blah. Buzz and Lillian work for me. I think they are comfortable together and that's fine with me. however, I don't think there romance could drive the show and I don't see them as a tentpole for the show.

I really like Billy and Vanessa as the people they are now and I'd be afraid to see them forced to fit a role. Billy is a wonderful character, but I would hate to see Billy castrated so that he can play the man everyone looks up to if that makes any sense.

I agree with what you said about Matt and Vanessa. I feel Matt holds Vanessa back and not in a good way.

Broderick was associate headwriter from September 28, 2004-January 4, 2005 according to Toups wonderful profile section. The show was decent before she came and after she left. I do think the day to day episodes were good when Broderick was there, but considering the timing I don't think she was the sole force. I do have to wonder if she kept the day to day plotting steady because after she left the show had about one month worth of decent day to day episodes before becoming completely plotless for about three or four months before developing into General Hospital Part II: The Jonathan and Tammy Story.

I thought the Sebastian Hulce story had potential, but it was squandered. Ed Bauer should have returned. Even if this meant recasting. Without Ed, the end of the storyline was as stupid as most of the search for coins storyline was. Sebastian was another wasted opportunity. I cannot believe he was sacrificed at the altar of the grand "Who shot Phillip but really didn't kill him storyline?" God, Wheeler and Kriezman created some of the most frustrating material for "Guiding Light". Good ideas with TERRIBLE execution.

I always wondered how Swajeski lasted as long as she did. The woman couldn't have been cheap and she did very little for the show.

I don't know who wrote the key storyline involving Ian and Paulina.

[Max]

I've always believed that the death of Maureen Bauer had a far less damaging impact on GL than what most others think. Think of it this way: if Maureen's death was really the death knell for GL, then why is it still on the air 15 years later?

Far more damaging were the following events, all of which happened after Maureen's death: Reva's return from the dead and all the stupid sci-fi storylines GL did in the 90's, the shift to an early morning timeslot, the San Cristobel garbage, the Conboy/Weston era, the huge slash in the budget, and the introduction of this new production model.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Not to mention, if Maureen survived, she probably would've been written out or put on recurring a long time ago...

BTW: Zaslow's exact quote regarding Maureen's death.

Pretty much sums up the long-term whole Mo's death lead to, even if we already know they most likely would've gotten rid of the character had she not died anyway...

Though, again, I loved the set-up to Mo's death, so beautifully written. I remember watching GL's X-Mas 92 episode and thinking something was going to happen to Mo soon, I could just feel it, even if we weren't directly told. Also, the closing shot of Mo and Ed dancing in that episode and the close-up of Mo at the end makes that episode more stronger, since she would die like two weeks after that episode.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Oh, and regarding who should've filled Maureen slot, I'd like to think of it as who Ed should've ended up with years after losing Maureen. I really wish Ed and Holly would get it together and become a real couple again, before GL ends. They can just have Rick mention that Holly went to join Ed in California or something, because Simon and Garrett are never coming back.

It makes perfect sense to me, both Ed and Holly lost the "loves of their lives," even if Roger and Holly really weren't together at the end of Roger's run, they were ultimately the loves of one another's lives. Also, I've always felt that Holly was the only woman that Ed ever loved, after Maureen of course. There's so much history between Ed and Holly, and I loved the "best friend" relationship they had.