18 minutes ago, kalbir said:

I think JR/Val last interaction was during the Dallas crossover episode involving Jock's will. Val has a book signing that JR shows up to and he tells her that he owns the publishing rights to her book.

Yes you are right. Bobby & J.R. made several KL appearances and Charlene did one. I wonder why none of the other Dallas actors made appearances ? Was it because they would have to pay them more money and they felt Duffy & Hagman were only worth the extra expense ?

I would love to have seen Bobby bring Pam with him to visit the cul-de-sac at least once. They should have had let that happen when J.R. got shot. They were headed there but were stopped on the freeway and returned to Dallas. They should have had them already be in KL for a few days when they are notified and bring Gary back with them. Victoria & Joan rarely had scenes together. 

7 minutes ago, Khan said:

I agree!  KL got a lot of story from Val's book, but it really didn't make sense for J.R. to be so concerned about it.  Then again, as I've mentioned before, I've never understood how KL came to the idea of making Val a writer in the first place.  At the very least, I see her writing books for children and young adults, since she loved babies so much.  But writing what amounted to be a potboiler in the same fashion as Jacqueline Susann just didn't work for me.

I can picture Val having a local cooking/lifestyle type of show on cable than being a writer. 

7 minutes ago, Khan said:

I dunno, I've always been partial to Greg - the once-idealistic politician who learned that ideals alone don't get the job done - myself.  I loved the Tracy/Hepburn-like energy between William Devane and Constance McCashin, too.  That [!@#$%^&*] got me right in my comfort zone, lol.

Oh Greg is my 2nd favorite for sure and I completely agree with your assessment…it’s just for me I also felt the last seasons over relied and overexposed Greg wayyy too much. No fault to Devane who was always consistently good, it’s mainly because TPTB couldn’t develop anything else substantial.

6 hours ago, Khan said:

Kenny and Ginger felt superfluous to me even during the Ciji Dunne storyline, and that one was centered around the music industry, lol!

But seriously.  The producers made the same mistake with the Wards that countless other producers and writers on soaps have made with pairings that aren't interesting: they saddled Kenny and Ginger with a kid, as if a baby would generate story for them.  (Guess what?  It never does).

Frankly, I would've killed off little Erin Molly ASAP, had Ginger suffer a total breakdown and end up in an institution, and the last thing you would've heard about Kenny was that he was living out of his van and he had taken up with an 18-year-old, lol!

Bobby Ewing and Richard Avery each had their time as the company pimp. Maybe it would have worked better for Kenny? Suppose he was a producer in name only, with his real contributions being sex and drugs.

1 hour ago, SoapDope said:

Yes. Years before ATWT James did " Hello Barbara".....Dallas J.R. did " Hello Valene" Some of their scenes were hilarious. I remember on Dallas when Val returned to see Lucy, J.R. shows up at Val's motel room. 

J.R.: " Hello Valene"

Val: " How did you find me" ?

J.R.: "Well, when I found out you were back in town. I had some of my people check out some of the cheaper motels. I figured you were living the lifestyle you were accustomed to. Well, Sure enough here you are"......LOL

I also laughed when J.R. visited the cul-de-sac in season 1 of KL and Val was running around giving him refreshments (coffee, ice tea, tuna fish sandwich) even though she hates his guts. He also breaks it off in them several times about the house.

J.R.: "The house is so pretty, and the best part is Mama's making the mortgage payments for you".

J.R:" I guess your Mama's finances are a laughing matter since she bought you this nice house here in California". " Everything here is pretty as a picture"

I think he throws it up again a third time telling them just because they have that nice house and their little domestic set up doesn't mean he won't break them up again.

Yes. Another of my favorite JR lines was when he was having dinner at Gary and Val's and all the neighbors were over and Val was upset about JR being there. Someone noticed she wasn't eating anything and asked her about it. She said, "I'm not hungry" as she glared at JR. JR says, "Valene, you better eat up while there's food on the table. You never know when your luck's going to run out". 

26 minutes ago, Khan said:

I agree!  KL got a lot of story from Val's book, but it really didn't make sense for J.R. to be so concerned about it.  Then again, as I've mentioned before, I've never understood how KL came to the idea of making Val a writer in the first place.  At the very least, I see her writing books for children and young adults, since she loved babies so much.  But writing what amounted to be a potboiler in the same fashion as Jacqueline Susann just didn't work for me.

I swear I'm not meaning to reply *only* to your posts, Khan ...

The impression I got was that J.R. was trying to mess with Val's head when he implied that Miss Ellie, etc. would be so scandalized or hurt by Capricorn Crude. It didn't work, so he moved onto making money off the whole affair.

I'll always love J.R. shading Val in that one scene, complimenting her on her "way with ice tea."

As for Val being Seaview Circle's answer to Susann, Krantz and Collins, even if the show didn't intend it, I always think in terms of Grace Metalious. She had aspirations of being a serious writer, but no one saw Peyton Place that way.

4 minutes ago, Reverend Ruthledge said:

Yes. Another of my favorite JR lines was when he was having dinner at Gary and Val's and all the neighbors were over and Val was upset about JR being there. Someone noticed she wasn't eating anything and asked her about it. She said, "I'm not hungry" as she glared at JR. JR says, "Valene, you better eat up while there's food on the table. You never know when your luck's going to run out". 

Yes that was great ....LOL. Another great scene is when he visits after she and Gary split up and talks to her about her book. He makes her repeat that she and Gary are separated. He also tells her he was disappointed it was fiction because real life was a hell lot more interesting. You should know that Valene.

The screen absolutely crackled whenever Hagman and Van Ark appeared together. Some of the Dallas actresses were not his equal, so it was always a pleasure to see him act with an excellent screen partner.

JR and Valene did have a scene together in the Dallas series finale, but as we know, that was another dream. They were scheduled to have a scene together in the TNT Dallas revival, but Hagman passed away before he could film it, so Linda Gray sat in for him. But you could tell the dialogue was written for JR and Val.

34 minutes ago, SoapDope said:

Yes you are right. Bobby & J.R. made several KL appearances and Charlene did one. I wonder why none of the other Dallas actors made appearances ? Was it because they would have to pay them more money and they felt Duffy & Hagman were only worth the extra expense ?

Actually, @SoapDope, Mary Crosby/Kristin appeared in an episode of KL during S2, shortly after she had shot J.R.  IIRC, Kristin attempted to seduce Kenny, because she was pregnant (with Christopher, whom Bobby and Pam end up adopting) and needed a father for her baby, or some mess.  The whole thing must've seemed absurd to DALLAS/KL viewers even back then, lol.

42 minutes ago, SoapDope said:

I can picture Val having a local cooking/lifestyle type of show on cable than being a writer. 

That would've been a hoot, lol!  Especially when Ben and Abby were running Pacific World Cable and Joshua had his "PTL Club"-like show.  Joshua would've turned the program into a real family affair, with his preaching (with Cathy by his side like Tammy Faye Bakker), Valene hosting cooking segments that attempted to present them (Josh, Val, Cathy, Lilimae) as one big, Jesus-lovin' family, and Cathy and Lilimae performing a Gospel number or two in every episode.

Imagine for the moment, though, if Val had decided that the best way to work through her issues with Gary and Abby would be to write a book all about the affair (rather than that "Nashville Junction" that was supposedly all about Lilimae and sold zilch copies, lol).

36 minutes ago, soapfan770 said:

Oh Greg is my 2nd favorite for sure and I completely agree with your assessment…it’s just for me I also felt the last seasons over relied and overexposed Greg wayyy too much. No fault to Devane who was always consistently good, it’s mainly because TPTB couldn’t develop anything else substantial.

Oh, I totally get where you're coming from with that, @soapfan770, and ICAM.  Greg and Paige's relationship felt particularly silly to me.

34 minutes ago, Franko said:

Bobby Ewing and Richard Avery each had their time as the company pimp. Maybe it would have worked better for Kenny? Suppose he was a producer in name only, with his real contributions being sex and drugs.

I'd go along with that, especially if it ended with Kenny dead like Charlie Minor.   

1 hour ago, Khan said:

Actually, @SoapDope, Mary Crosby/Kristin appeared in an episode of KL during S2, shortly after she had shot J.R.  IIRC, Kristin attempted to seduce Kenny, because she was pregnant (with Christopher, whom Bobby and Pam end up adopting) and needed a father for her baby, or some mess.  The whole thing must've seemed absurd to DALLAS/KL viewers even back then, lol.

That would've been a hoot, lol!  Especially when Ben and Abby were running Pacific World Cable and Joshua had his "PTL Club"-like show.  Joshua would've turned the program into a real family affair, with his preaching (with Cathy by his side like Tammy Faye Bakker), Valene hosting cooking segments that attempted to present them (Josh, Val, Cathy, Lilimae) as one big, Jesus-lovin' family, and Cathy and Lilimae performing a Gospel number or two in every episode.

Imagine for the moment, though, if Val had decided that the best way to work through her issues with Gary and Abby would be to write a book all about the affair (rather than that "Nashville Junction" that was supposedly all about Lilimae and sold zilch copies, lol).   

I watched the Kristin episode just the other night. I laughed when Ginger walked in on her and Kenny supposedly going at it. Supposedly Kristin was still pregnant by J.R. at this point, but miscarried and got quickly pregnant again ?  Dallas dropped the ball on that. Baby Christopher should have been J.R.'s all along and as he grows up Mommy Pam starts to notice bad behavioral problems. I can picture 5 year old Christopher telling Pam " Shut up you stupid B#*%h" after she tells him to finish his milk.

LOL at Val & the family PTL club. Joshua would get a secretary (like Jessica Hahn) and have a scandalous affair that rocks their little cable world. Joshua would pull a Jimmy Swaggart and confess his sins live on the air. 

Edited September 9, 20241 yr by SoapDope

Just finished "Will the Circle Be Unbroken" (Season 1, Episode 5).  That's another really good one.  Lilimae's first appearance inspired the writer to examine each mother/daughter relationship on the show in a pretty impactful manner.

And I loved the "dessert scene" where everyone ditched the parfait (or whatever that was) for Valene's countryfied fritters that Lillimae warned her not to serve to those "city folks".  

2 hours ago, soapfan770 said:

 the last seasons over relied and overexposed Greg wayyy too much. 

The final five seasons was way too much Paige, she practically ate the show.

1 hour ago, Khan said:

 Greg and Paige's relationship felt particularly silly to me.

Daughter of his frenemy Mack and there's the ick factor that at one point Greg was believed to have been Paige's father.

2 hours ago, Franko said:

Bobby Ewing and Richard Avery each had their time as the company pimp. Maybe it would have worked better for Kenny? Suppose he was a producer in name only, with his real contributions being sex and drugs.

You aren't too far off on Kenny. From what David Jacobs suggested, they had bigger plans for the Ward's, but the network vetoed it.

Jason: Actually, David, it’s interesting because we spoke to Kim Lankford
last week, who had nothing but good things to say about you, but she did say
that she felt that perhaps she should have stood up for her character of
Ginger a little more. She felt that the Valene and Karen characters –
overrode I think is the word she used – overrode some of the things – the
direction she wanted to go in. Do you think that the Wards were well written
for?

David: No, I don’t think so and I have an excuse. I don’t always have an
excuse –

Jason: OK!

David: – sometimes I just say I just didn’t get something –

Jason: Yeah!

David: – but the original concept for those two was way, way too, um,
lascivious for the time. I mean, he was – this wasn’t in the pilot, this was
something that came very early – but he wanted to get into the music
business so badly … and he had a boss who sort of was turned on by Ginger,
and he [Kenny] wanted Ginger to sleep with him.

Jason: Wow!

James: Ah!

David: And, and, and – she was gonna do it and – um – I mean, very
reluctantly and really upset – but, um, I mean, that degree of, um – the
network didn’t let us do it. So it was hard to make them – I mean, we made
him a philanderer, but – um – well, just think about that opportunity. I
mean, that that would have opened up into – um – a good story.

Jason: When did that change, in terms of the Wards’ original concept?

David: Well, we never – we never filmed that.

Here's the full interview: https://www.knotslanding.net/interviews/davidjacobs.htm

4 minutes ago, Chris B said:

You aren't too far off on Kenny. From what David Jacobs suggested, they had bigger plans for the Ward's, but the network vetoed it.

 

 

I think the Wards could have been the open marriage/ key party type of people on Seaview Circle.  The show did start in 1979.. near the end of the free love of the 70s.. and it would have been a good way to make them different then the Ewings.

The biggest problem with the Wards seems to be that they play so much younger than their cul-de-sac counterparts, lacking the experience, wit, and sarcasm that we see in the Averys, the Fairgates, and the Ewings.  Demographically, they're a bit isolated from everyone else -- which was probably a good idea on paper but didn't necessarily work in reality.  

In all the episodes I've re-watched so far, the Wards do seem like an afterthought. 

8 hours ago, Chris B said:

You aren't too far off on Kenny. From what David Jacobs suggested, they had bigger plans for the Ward's, but the network vetoed it.

 

 

Well, I certainly didn't expect Kenny to pimp his own wife.