Lost: Discussion Thread

[Toups]

But to me that was the series - the emotions that the characters went though and the emotions that I went through. The ending was fitting because they were together in the end which, to me, is the ultimate conclusion. The idea of them needing each other in the after life is pretty awesome. I love stuff like that.

[Sylph]

New York Times: "The ending felt contrived and disappointing, which was probably inevitable."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/25/arts/television/25lost.html

For me, I guess, it was one half of the series. The characters. The other half is everything else.

http://www.deadline.com/2010/05/ratings-rate-race-big-exit-for-lost/

[Toups]

There were so many that died on the island, and people had different roles, so how can the alternate/sideways be the future? You're the first person I've heard say this. Can you explain your speculation?

[quartermainefan]

The flash forwards are the future too. Those with the Oceanic 6 happened during the three years they were off the island and before they returned. Then they returned and everyone got thrown around the timestream a little and landed in the 70s, the nuke brought them back to today, and then eventually Jack died. When Jack dies the alt timeline begins and gets backdated.

[quartermainefan]

Because I am the only one who knows what Earth 2 is, X-Men Days Of Future Past is, and what Franklin Richards' pocket universe is. I tell you it helps if you read comic books.

The timeline is not a linear straight line, it is sort of a circle where everyone enters into it at their moment of death be it they die last year or 50 years from now. But in the timeline they enter "now" and at the age Jack thinks of them as. Further, the timeline got extended retroactively so all these people got to think they were living their lives in it. It was a parallel universe that got created after Jack died either by Jack, Jacob or maybe even Hurley with their island powers. No one enters it until they die in the real world so none of it happened yet because Jack was still alive. But before the day he died Desmond who sees the future sees it.

I really think if you plot not Jack's timeline, but Desmond's, it sort of all comes together. Desmond sees the future and what did Desmond see and when did he see it?

[Sylph]

So basically you're saying:

1. Stuff from the flashbacks happens.
2. The Oceanic 815 crashes on the Island.
3. They get off the Island and stuff from the flash-forwards happen.
4. They return to the Island.
5. Jack dies on the Island, others leave on the plane.
6. Everybody dies at some point in time. In all that time, Jack kept imagining the sideways.
7. The sideways end when everyone dies and Jack is able to digest it all.
8. The all go into the Light.

Is Hurley immortal as the Guardian of the Island?

Some others did too.

This I did not get at all. Or maybe I did, but I think I didn't. LOL.

[Toups]

Hmm....that's pretty interesting. Still confusing but interesting. LOL I never thought of it like that. I'm not sure I get that the sideways was created after Jack died. I think once you die in the real world, that's where all the characters went. When Jack dies, the moment he crosses over to the sideways was when he was on plane, beside Rose, and she tells him that it was okay to "let go now." The sideways was a place that their souls went to. I don't think any one person created the sideways.

Do you watch Fringe? The show deals with alternate universes too.

You could be right. Whenever I decide to rewatch the series, I'll keep all of this in mind.

[Toups]

That's the thing, I don't think the sideways was just Jack's POV. All the stuff involving Jack in the sideways was Jack's POV, but everyone else "lived" their own sideways. That's why Jack created his son, I guess because he had father issues of his own - Locke tells Jack he has no son.

Hurley and Ben eventually died, I assume on the island.

[Sindacco]

That's pretty much how I feel too. But I will always love the first two seasons.

[Sylph]

Right. I think so too.

I have absolutely no idea what happened when. I mean, did Jack's sideways begin the moment he died? I guess that really doesn't negate anything in particular, but I find it strange. It's just weird and dumb in a way for his sideways to have lasted 50 years or whatever. Dunno.

That's why I had to re-read this:

I can't see it as a circle. It's more like an infinite line (though Stephen Hawking did prove that time has a beginning and an ending, apparently so in real life it's not really infinite).

They can't "enter" the timeline when they die, now and at the age Jack thinks of them. Or they can, but if that means what I wrote above (the numbered list). They can't enter it when they die because then the Island and its mysteries never happened. They can't enter now, because now doesn't exist without the past. So they enter it at their earliest respective flashback. Then they all board Oceanic and so on. It can't also be retroactively extended because past has to come before the present.

Oh, I see.

He became the Guardian without that incantation and potion?

[quartermainefan]

Pretty much. Jack was a doctor, Kate was a fugitive, Desmond was on the island pushing the button.

Desmond doesn't push the button and 815 crashes on the island

The Oceanic Six escape and Jack starts to crack up while Kate raises Aaron, etc

Meanwhile, those on the island are hopping around time until Locke fixes it and is sent back to the mainland to retrieve the Six

The Oceanic Six is convinced to return and they too are sent back in time to the 1970s

They set off the nuke and they all are returned to 2007 or whatever year we are up to as the present

Widmore brings Desmond to the island and Desmond sees this future with Penny, Charlie and everyone else living a better life

Jack saves the island and dies

the alternate timeline now kicks in for Jack the moment the final episode goes off the air

all the people who died earlier (Boone, Shannon, Libby, etc) are folded into the timeline but they too do not know they are dead

as the years go by everyone starts to die naturally and as they die they enter the timeline

Desmond dies naturally maybe 40 years after the show ends, he starts living the alternate life he saw wakes them all up

They all are dead happily ever after

The only thing with time is there is no time in the alternate timeline really, it is always "now" so it makes no difference when everybody dies, they all are where they are supposed to be at the right age

The one thing that muddies everything up for me is the last shot of the show with the wreckage of the plane. I am not sure which plane that was but it does make a case for they just were all dead at the moment of impact. That I need to watch again. The Rose/Jack moment may very well be the moment of death with that theory.

[Sylph]

What I also find infuriating, and I know you who liked the ending might not see it that way, is the suggested purpose of the Island. I commented on it just a few posts back. It's the cork theory. I have to add to what I said that the Island existed for many, many centuries, millennia... before The Man in Black was born. So how exactly it got created, who did it, when did it became the home of the Source (probably the moment it got created), who were its inhabitants during its history... is something I find intriguing. How is it that it's able to change its location and sink under the ocean surface is also a mystery I'd like to see solved.

I also just find it plain implausible that The Man in Black would cause so much evil if he were to escape the Island. Who was his real mother and who was the Mother? Why did the Mother pick the real mother and killed it? Was the real mother also someone with special abilities? If not, how did Jacob and The Man in Black receive their powers? Spell & incantation? Are they "human"? Or higher-level beings?

The Island just must have had a purpose long before The Man in Black came along.

[Toups]

Here's how Doc Jensen explains the island:

Doc Jensens full recap here

I loved his description of the final scene:

[Sylph]

Well, Toups, that made no sense to me whatsoever. This is where he lost me:

It's kind of a Christian view, modified by certain New Age things. I mean, if you got turned into a "soulless zombie", how the hell would you know you don't get to go to Paradise (or Hell)? No soul, no knowledge of such things = you can't care because the soul makes you care.

And I just plain fail to see how 8 leads to 9. I mean, if the same procedure that breaks the spell also destroys the Island... How exactly can the two happen at the same time? OK, they can, but that means that with the Island, the Man in Black goes away too. He can't escape before nor after.

Fake Locke leaving the Island means annihilation. OK. So does that mean 9 means annihilation = you die = you become a soulless zombie.

This is what I've feared: fans going into overdrive to "explain" it all and make other people realize that "it all makes sense". Nope, it doesn't. And also they try subconsciously to "justify", or whatever the verb, to themselves why they've been watching and to kill the inner voice that says: My God! It was all utter sh*t!

I knew it would happen.

[Toups]

Trust me, I'm still confused too. I was merely posting his views. It's up to whether you agree, disagree, or it has no affect on you. LOL It's what made sense TO HIM.

It's interesting to see how other people interpret things, how they saw the show. Many people have different ideas and theories and I think that's another reason why I loved the show.

Also, I'm a person who believes in parallel universes and sometimes I do think about, "What happens to me after I die?", so that's why this is all intriguing for me. And no, I have no inner voice that says it was all crap. Because as I watched the series for the past 6 years, I was entertained and attached to the characters. Or else I would've stopped watching.