P.J.

God...Jonathan Randall 3.0? *shivers at the thought*

That kid wasn't actually Cassie's biological child, was he? Wasn't he Alonzo's son, and that's why Cassie let him take the kid back to San Cristobel? Or something? Wasn't there a claim on here that Cassie was intended to be a major rival for Reva but Kim wanted them to not be at odds? @DRW50 I don't recall that, but I can see Kim saying that. Especially after the Annie stuff. Of course, it would've been more interesting if Reva had a sister who couldn't stand her...but what Kim wanted, Kim got a lot of the time. At least, according to the rumor mill. Oh, and in that case, Rauch wasn't wrong. ****ressa fans got the endless damsel in distress plots, which ultimately (I believe) backfired and made Matt expendable when Maeve left. **** fans could've had their empty-headed lout ****toy for years.

Carly had also interacted with Lisa and the Snyders, (I believe it was her first tour where Emma famously compared her to an onion), but as Guiding Light has shown us, new regimes seem to shy away from bringing back characters. Anyway, and not to derail the thread, it's amazing how the right return can energize a show. Thanks again @alwaysAMC

"cheerleader energy"...*snorts milk through nose* YEP. Shakin' pom-poms and all. Now that you say that, Reva and Roxie always had a grittiness to them. Laura and Nicole Forrester sure didn't embody that Shayne vibe. (yes, she's not tecnically a Shayne...but still...)

I'm surprised they didn't at least try to get Michael Tylo back, for either Van's return or the birth of Maureen. But honestly, other than Trish and Mindy, I can't think of anyone who wasn't on canvas that Van had been really close to over the years, who wasn't there.

Wow...'93? I had not realized it was so long ago. Oh---and now that I think about it, even Fletch deserved a moment, even as much as I hated his brief affair with Van. lol...which is probably the nicest thing I've said about Fletch in ages. OMG... even thinking about Maura and Wendy Moniz facing off. LOL...I guess Cassie must not have been originally conceived as a good girl. 'Cause there ain't no way P&G would've slotted Maura in that role after her initial run as Carly.

WHAT NOW? Maura was in the running for Cassie? OH BOY HOWDY...if Kimmy had issues with Cynthia stealing her thunder, she'd have had a meltdown with Maura acting rings around her...but I digress. Frank Grillo caught like a deer in headlights as Maura acted would've been HELLA FUNNY. Thanking the soap gods this didn't happen and Maura went back to ATWT. I don't recall Matt really having a point of view outside of Vanessa really either. That's why he's a one-dimensional "hero" just set up as Van's steadfast stud service. If the entire point of that romance was the Harlequin romance/wish department for women of a certain age, why not flip the entire older/younger scenario and have Matt be jealous over Ross or Billy and realize that he needs to improve himself to be worthy of her? Instead it lapsed into Van worrying over the likes of Beth Raines. (say what you will, but Beth is already bordering on mentally unstable by this time) I didn't mind Laura Wright as much then, but now it's clear she went to the KZ school of chewing scenery.

There's a point where GL (and soaps in general) stopped caring about those little character moments that just meant so much to viewers. Nola being there would've called back to the only truly "nice" moment Van and Nola ever had on screen (well, two if you count how Nola is the one hugging Van when she's devastated by her diagnosis, but I digress.) Van has Bill via c-section, and then later nearly dies in Van's arms when he stops breathing because the doctors didn't catch that he had a heart murmur. (this is what made Van overanxious and led to her pill addiction, but again, I digress..) Nola visits Van in the hospital, and relates the story of Stacy's birth and how the doctors/books don't prepare you for things that happen that aren't anyone's fault. I'd have much rather seen Nola gushing over little Maureen and acknowledging how much Van went through than see Jenna snotting tears.

Bryan is flippin' adorable as Little Bill. If you ever get to back to '89, he's just a great little kid. He's not cutey pie almost-annoying as Ashley Peldon's Marah, and he's really the bridge that keeps Van and Billy in each other's lives. The wrters could've justified it as Ross stepping back because he knew Van was annoyed with him--but this may also be around the time Jerry was diagnosed with prostate cancer. I can't seem to find when that was with a quick persual of the 'net.

I don't know when that crap with Jenna developed. When I stop watching in '93, Jenna (with Roger's help) has hornswaggled Spaulding out from underneath the Chamberlains and the Spauldings, and Van snipes at Jenna at the Frank/Eleni wedding about how she wouldn't be welcome there. I don't know if it was in the wake of Henry's death, or maybe Jenna miscarrying Roger's baby, or even some unlikely bond over Nola's antics. But it just makes zero sense to me that Van would have accepted that woman as a friend in such a short period of time. It took Van years to trust Blake, if she ever truly did. And then there's Buzz, who was an oily con man in '93, helping Nadine keep the Peter secret...getting special access (even if it's as Jenna's husband--were they ever married? I'm not sure.) UGH...and NOLA's not even there? When the child is named for her sister and there's been at least a thaw between Nola and Van? [!@#$%^&*] THESE PEOPLE. I'm outraged decades later...lol.

It has to be (if not the last appearance) near the very end of Bryan Buffinton's run as Bill. Which is very sad to me. I get that you have to let child performers go sometime, but there's a lot of history with that little guy. And he was a much better actor than Ryan Brown. I just recall the entire set up being very segmented. People from Vanessa's "old" life waiting out in the hall (I'm not even sure if Ross is there, or was just mentioned as getting a call), and her "new" life (plus Bill) sobbing at her bedside. Sobbing Jenna and Buzz are in that room, while Billy is in the hall. Utter bullshit. They could've at least sprinkled some flashbacks in there showing her other relationships. I wish they'd handled Maureen's visit entirely differently, with Mo reminding Vanessa that she had always been a fighter and loved her children too much to simply give up without another one. Her entire focus being Matt and Dinah (with Bill and even little Maureen barely an afterthought) is really symbolic of what Van had been reduced to. Which is really why Matt and Dinah should've screwed much earlier, or Matt and Beth, with Vanessa realizing she'd sensed/feared all along that Matt was not a long term thing.

Lisa Brown's wasn't. She was pregnant IRL while Iva dated Kirk. Iva later got pregnant by John, resulting in Matthew John.

Carter Bowden. When Vanessa comes to town, Ross starts dropping hints about how Amanda's keeping something from Ben, and Van is all over it like white on rice. She snoops (which she did all the time) and finds the agreement. LOL...AMANDA? This is shocking info to me. I should've figured there was some reason Ross is all hot and bothered over her---well, besides her money. The more I hear about the Dobson years, the more I wish it was available.

hee hee...I miss meanie domain so much. I don't recall being in the GL forum much, but I spent a lot of time "expressing myself" on the ATWT board.

Wait, what did Amanda do to snare Ben? @Reverend Ruthledge thanks! It's always interesting to get the background. I just find it odd they did it. Do you know of any other soaps that switched settings? I mean, I assume ATWT always took place in Oakdale, but now I wonder.

I watched this a while ago. I remember that Billy was the only one really saying "Vanessa can still turn this around", while everyone else is waiting for her to die. I wanted Billy to go into her room and start arguing with her, instead of what everyone else was doing, which was basically crying over her and saying their goodbyes.

Tell me about it! I'd forgotten all about it.Then I hit early '92, Van's nearly raped, and Fletch starts making the googly eyes at her. I'm like no bleepin' way---it's going to be one-sided. And sure enough, Billy gets jealous, and Fletch is semi-friend-zoned by Van. THEN, Ross gives Fletch the side eye when he's glued to Van's side when she's pressing charges. And Mo is like "what's going on?" And Alex gets a little green eyed. And THEN Fletch is forced to admit on the stand that he loves her. UGH. But then they kiss...and (ewwww...more) I'm like RUN VANESSA RUN! NNNoooooooo! Fletch is fine as a B/C story character. He's not a leading man, he's comic relief. Worse, he's "the safe choice". Whether it's Maureen's crush that ends up stressing her marriage or the hapless affair with Holly, he's the medicine for the dissatisfied woman. If you've got a bruised heart, he's there to pick up the pieces. Objectively, I get why they needed someone harmless and "good guy" for Vanessa when Billy's dragging her through the emotional wringer. But it does seem really random, like the writers realized they had to meet Jay's guarantees somehow. They had even flirted with Fletch and Chelsea for crying out loud, before Kassie dePaiva left. The thing about Dinah was always that a little of her went a long way. Yes, there were other loud or obnoxious characters. (Nola, Vanessa, Harley) but they were never bitches 24/7. Nola had her family to soften her, Van had Henry and Harley/Frank. But nothing toned Dinah down, not really. From the minute Wendy stepped into the role, Dinah was a selfish bitch. She's still a selfish bitch towards the end when Dinah's faking needing rehab to spy on Billy for Bill or then turning on Bill and being responsible for Lizzie's kidnapping. Having the occasional moment of conscience isn't any kind of redemption.

It was the worst stuff I couldn't FF through in rewatching 89-93. After Billy nearly strangles Roger, Billy declares Mindy's no longer his daughter and feels betrayed that Van knew about the pregnancy and affair. She's disgusted with him for disowning Mindy, and starts spiraling, sleeping with a couple of clients. Fletch is disgusted with Alex for blowing it all up publicly. Van is nearly raped by Jack Kiley, who's heard she sleeps around, but Fletch saves her. He supports her pressing charges and starts crushing on her. They have a brief affair. She refuses to tell Bill that they're dating, which is really all about keeping her options open with Billy. Bill finds out anyway and runs away. Billy and Van find him at Cross Creek and reconnect. But Van comes home and nearly marries Fletch. She's late because she stops by Billy to tell hom and they fight. She gets into a car accident and misses Fletch's deadline. She finally has to admit that she's still in love with Billy. This is what spurs Nadine to fake the pregnancy and pass off Peter as her child.

I agree that Long ends up pushing Van aside for Reva, Alex and even India, her creations. But I also think she fleshed Vanessa out when she took over. (I think she takes over in March of '83? or so?) I read an interview from early on, and she said one of the first things she needed to do was give the viewers a reason to care about Van. And she's right...if not care about exactly, then a reason to root for the woman, who spent two years creating havoc and jumping from man to man without much rhyme or reason. And Long definitely did better by Vanessa in '89, weaving her back into the canvas effortlessly. @Speed Racer I'm not sure there's a way to do that without coming off as pathetic (as fun as India's "biological twitchings" line to Reva is, India constantly ends up with egg on her face.) I think I know what you're talking about with Van--I believe that's the summer of '91, when Vanessa is hell-bent on throwing herself at Billy and ends up sleeping with him at Cross Creek. She's not exactly wrong...she knows Billy only married Nadine because he was drunk and every time she turns around, Billy is making a pass at her. (well, if not a pass, saying meaningful things about their relationship and testing the water to see if she'd get back together with him.) In spite of her reputation (after '84, that is) Van wasn't a saint and could be arrogant as all get out. But she knew Billy. She knew she could get him if she wanted. In '92, after she dumps Fletch, she makes up her mind to go after Billy again, and only pauses because Nadine "accidently" lets her know she's "pregnant". Which doesn't stop her from flirting with him, which I find fun.

Well...Vanessa's a lot too lady-like for that...but I always did hate how the show rewrote (or completely forgot) Vanessa had been vamping around Springfield for years before "sexpot" Reva showed up. But Vanessa aiming some well timed truths about Reva's selfish ass behavior would've been greatly appreciated. She gets in a couple of licks after she found out about Dylan, but otherwise, Vanessa kept her mouth pretty shut.

The kid who played Evan Walsh IV had won one contests (like I wanna be a soap star) didn't he? The writers by then didn't care about the history he could've brought up. That stupid son of Emily's wasn't on for long. He was such a dweeb and had some almost awkward romance story with Alexandra Chando's character.

Yes. Natalie was born Christmas Eve, 2003. Martha had gotten pregnant during the Spa Storyline, and Rose spent the summer off on some island adventure-ish story which culminated in Simon, Katie, Rose and Paul in a hurricane, I think. Lily was pregnant around the time that Luke came out, and ended up tumbling down some stairs in a fight with Luke. (I think.) Storywise, ATWT never got around to doing much with either Natalie or Ethan. Ethan fell down a hole after Holden and Carly's affair, which resulted in Lily and Holden's reconciliation.

ATWT Maura West's first pregnancy, ended in her miscarrying Mike Kasnoff's child Kelly Hensley's first pregnancy was written in I believe, Emily gave birth to Daniel Hughes All of Martha Byrne's pregnancies were written in, resulting in Faith, Natalie and Ethan Snyder Hillary Bailey Smith's pregnancy was written in, and Margo had an affair with Hal, producing Adam Hughes. Collen Zenk's second pregnancy, when she gave birth to Will Munson. Guiding Light Two of Kim Zimmer's pregnancies, resulting in Marah and Shayne Lewis Maeve Kinkead's second pregnancy, Vanessa gave birth to Bill Lewis. Jessica Leccia's pregnancy, giving Frankie a daughter, Francesca. Liz Kiefer's pregnancies, Blake giving birth to Kevin, Jason and Clarissa Marler.

Ugh..I tend to block out things Olivia related because I just dislike her so. Was he still involved with her when he flipped and GA left? There's also the icky Harley/Cyrus/Marina thing---which makes me throw up in my mouth a lot.

No, Alan and Blake happened when (or I guess technically before) Blake came to Springfield. Gus is Alan's son by some nameless chick. I'm not sure GL was any more or less "fluid" with relationships than any other show, but maybe it feels like it because there's not that one couple that just anchors the show and weathers everything (like ATWT's Bob and Kim). You'd really almost have to go back to Bill and Bert for any stable couple. Other than Ed and Mo in the '80's/early '90's.