P.J.

@alwaysAMC I had rewatched parts of Dinah's exit, but I can't believe how heavily the Lillian/Van connection is played. On one hand, I get it---other than Reva, there's really no one in town that Van's contemporary (Alex doesn't really count, with Dusay in the role) and at this point Holly's nuts. But it's just frustrating that everything is just kosher between these two. At least to me. All I can say about ****/Van is that it's just unserious, even by a bad rom-com standard. It's hard for me to understand how the same writers that could write a spot-on scene between Van and Billy, write such contrived tripe for "hero" ****. Then again, tripe would be the only thing that made **** look good. zing And I'm sure it was meant to be sincere, but picturing Cassie flinging Hart's ashes in manure---kind of a choice.

Oh, honey, you'd have to hang on another five-six years to see that.

I agree with DeeVee---I'm not sure Reva and Kyle would've been as accepted if Reva and Josh would've had more time together. The audience would've been holding their breath, waiting for Josh to come back to town. Reva and Josh barely have a year together before Robert Newman left in Nov. '84. Even though I find Kyle overbearing, there were times he was her Daddy Warbucks, lifting her out of the gutter emotionally and showered her with the good life she'd always wanted. (There's also times he's an overbearing [!@#$%^&*], dumping her unceremoniously.) My 'Nessa is not that kind of 'ho. Although recaps suggest she did make a pass at him, and there is part of an episode I've seen where she's in Ross' apartment, in his pj top, flirting with Justin. No. Alan-Michael briefly thought he was the father of Eleni's baby. But he knew before Marina was born that he wasn't. But it was gross that he'd married both of her aunts and then hooked up with her (or wanted to, I'm not sure on later era A-M's plot lines)

Oh, Reva and Kyle were actually a big couple---and probably her most successful pairing other than Josh. I'm still convinced that if Josh had still been in Springfield, he would've been illegitimate, the product of an affair that Martha had. The original story under Marland was that Martha had died soon after Josh's birth, and that's why Trish thought HB kept him at a distance. I'm blanking on Beth screwing her way through a family (although I guess Alan, Phillip and Lujack count), but the big one you're missing is Blake. Blake slept with Alan, Phillip and Alan-Michael, not to mention Phillip's biological uncles Ross and Ben.

I think B&B owes a lot of it's success to bringing Sheila over from Y&R. I drifted in and out of B&B for years, but I think I gave up on it seriously sometime during the Amber years. She was an obnoxious guttersnipe.

Well, naturally. But because Reva was the center of the universe, of course her kids pretty much just thought she was great. I think that's part of the reason they just disappeared, TIIC were afraid to write that natural conflict, not realizing it really could've generated powerful moments. Honestly, in retrospect...WTF did CBS think Bell Sr was going to do with either an extra half hour of B&B or another half hour show? May he rest in peace, but by then, B&B was already well into recycling their storylines and stuck the triangle from Hell (Brooke/Ridge/Taylor) in an endless Groundhog Day. This I know, because I was the sucker who thought that Ridge would honestly just [!@#$%^&*] choose Brooke, instead of saying all the right things to her and trudging back to Taylor's sour-faced bed. Not to mention Reva was with Billy's half-brother, who she "fell in love with" while married to HB and thinking Kyle was also HB's son. RME. I can't speak for other P&G shows, but ATWT was the king of the endless maze of family dating the same people. Poor Rick...he was probably really close to getting a sibling/cousin when Mike married his mother Leslie. Dylan at least started out with more Billy and Reva similarities. He was stubborn and argumentative, prone to act without thinking, etc. But Englund (imo) didn't have the type of charisma to keep pulling that attitude off.

It's not apparent, but I remember liking Lucy and A-M. I just haven't rewatched that era to chat it up.

Let me nominate Jordan Clarke. He had charm for days. Josh was the pretty boy, but Billy was the Lewis m-a-n.

They even touched at Reva's disconnect from Shayne specifically at the very end of the show after Jon comes back to Springfield. That was part of the problem with characters who'd been in town forever. Rick at least had a long history of having the feels for Beth, going back to high school. But it definitely got weird when Bill Lewis hooked up with two mom/daughter combos, briefly adopted Phillip's daughter Emma, and later married Lizzie. Or how Dinah hooked up with two of Reva's sons, but it never sparked a discussion (at least that I saw) between Reva and Vanessa. Josh and Cassie hooking up was more about plot contrivance than anything else. But gross---definitely, and yet, BORING.

**** is clearly the most boring Reardon...but geez, Lucy's more interesting than Frank at least. Coop...arguably a push, and it depends on which Marina we're talking about. Dollar? Nope, but Bruno? Yep. I just can't with Poser. Cullen at least had some kind of Spaulding connection to work with. She'd worked with GA, and if not so much with either A-M, at least she could remind us she was friends with Hope, and that gave her an additional incentive to consider A-M's side. Not that Reva didn't love her kids, or to suggest Kim didn't vibe with the actors playing them, but I always had a sense that Reva couldn't really connect with Marah or Shayne after her return. They were Josh's kids by more than just biology. Even with Reva as a mother, they'd had too normal a life. She didn't have a lot of time with Dylan, and he became too centered before she returned. Even though she didn't raise Jon, she connected to the rage he felt. And God knows Kim understood scenery chewing actors.

I volunteer ****. A next gen Spaulding sibling fight, where everyone was equal (not just someone being an [!@#$%^&*], but legit concern for the business) would've worked. But I'd have wanted Kathleen Cullen for that. No offense to Poser, but MadamMandy just Say No.

I'd have to check the recaps, but there's a strange subplot about TJ's girlfriend (or a girl he knew) committing suicide because she was pregnant. I don't know if it was at the end of the Dobson's run, or the beginning of Marland's. Either way, it looked like someone had something planned, but it just kind of fizzled.

The 8/15/89 episode, the minister is definitely referred to as TJ. I'm too lazy to wade through the May wedding, to see if there's an explanation about a Phillip/TJ connection. But it looks like the same actor.

No, TJ was not killed off. He left SF to be with his girlfriend who was going to an out-of-state school. Sara might have mentioned him once in a while afterwards, but that was it. I find it hard to believe that Anthony Call was the problem--he went on to OLTL and became very popular even though the viewers hated him at first because he was the attorney who harangued Karen Wolek in the famous trial scene. He and Robin Strasser were a great pair. Maybe they wanted to leave Sara free for the Justin/Jackie story, but she didn't stay in that storyline for that long. It's funny--I think one of the very first scenes I ever watched on GL was Joe, Sara, and TJ celebrating Christmas. They were so happy. And then of course soon after Joe had a heart attack and died. I think TJ (recast with a different actor, natch) was the officiant at both of Phillip and Blake's ceremonies. Why the show chose to bring him back with a connection to Phillip, I don't know. You'd have thought TJ would've been a better dupe in the Nola/Kelly/Morgan triangle than Floyd.

Honestly, sometime after Phillip "died", Van should've stepped in and taken over Spaulding. It's ridiculous that they had Harley (I loved her at one time, but C'MON..) run it for even a minute. Even if Maeve wasn't willing to put in a lot of time, the entire Spaulding clan was so decimated, they'd lost any sense of being capable of being the town dogcatchers, not to mention running an international conglomerate. And Lizzie? D'oh smacks forehead

I'm surprised SOD remembers GL. Cross-referencing with Spauldingfield and the German episodes, suggests Alex's debut was 2/20. Whichever is correct, it's the second day of the party. Drunk Ross is delightful. And Billy's date? Sara Botsford, later to be the evil Lilith on ATWT.

I don't think that's the correct date for the episode, but it's still a fabulous introduction to Bev and OG Alex.

I don't think Vanessa would've needed to replace Rita in Alan's bed to prevent A-M's conception. Hope was so idealistic, Van could've upset that apple cart in any number of ways, hastening Alan's affair with Rita. I think it would've been really interesting for Alan to have had a woman, a true equal in terms of business (or romantically) to go up against. He never really has that. I'm not sure I would've ever wanted that to be Van, but early Van sure as heck was not going to take his BS, dominating nature.

Lol...they were! Even Alan seems just flummoxed by someone who doesn't just meekly say "yes, Alan" and scurry away.

Well, Hope and Amanda must seem like easy targets for Van. LOL. Not to mention Eve. This Van would've made mincemeat of Reva.

Would she have had story? Sure. Would it have been good story? *shrugs* Other than not needing to venture into the ridiculous, it's not like Reva ever let her love for Bud stop her from sluttin' it up. I don't think Reva worked as well when separated from the Lewises. And I damn sure don't think Kim would've really been happy doing "mom Reva" type stories.

Dinah's entire relaunch is about making Van and Ross look like idiots. Dinah could've been a troublemaker without them developing amnesia and forgetting how they manipulated people right and left at that age. In fact, it would've been a hella lot more interesting for viewers who remembered that about Ross and Van. (again, leading to them feeling old sparks while Blake was humping Ben or **** massaging Beth's tattered ego.) Instead of making them stick their heads in the ground like ostriches, or in Van's case, continually begging for forgiveness.

That is NO LIE. You can watch a hospital scene from the late '70's/early'80's, and there are probably 10 extras just milling around the hospital in addition to underfives that are nurses, orderlies, and residents in a scene. Courtrooms? PACKED. Judges, lawyers, stenographers, baliffs, journalists. Restaurants? Paying customers. Parties? SWAMPED. (go watch the build up to the Slut of Springfield scenes. that bleepin' set is HUGE. There's food, extras, flowers, half the cast is there, and I swear there are TWO fountains, the one that Reva jumped into and then one that Rick dumps Mindy in, but it's been a while since I watched, so that might be wrong.) Guiding Light especially was party driven for a stretch. There were costume extravganzas (before Mindy's wedding Van threw a costume engagement party, which is hilarious for two reasons: Reva looking like a smashed version of the Good Fairy and Rick and Phillip singing in drag.) weddings, and people constantly showing up at the club in tuxes. Hammier...less character driven. "Louder", less nuanced, shock-bait stories (hey, Blake has twins with different fathers! because sluttin' up and being unsure of the father isn't quite enough.) and imo, the worst---the hareliquin/hallmark-ization romances like Vanessa/**** that couldn't just be torpedoed due to fanbases. (see also Manny, Rassie, Jammy) Rant over.

You could also argue that Dinah stomped all over and devalued Bridget, who was poised to be the relatable young heroine at the time.

I'm only glad it ended before Reva ended up in bed with Bill, because you just know, in your soul, that some dumb IIC would've had Reva move on to the third generation of Lewis men. (and that she never slept with Ben Reade, because even though they forgot, he was kin to the Lewises. Or at least Billy.)