P.J.

Wired For Sound and Company were completely separate entities. The only thing they had in common was that Tony ran them both. Vanessa owned Wired For Sound. If it had been Company, she probably would have torched it herself to try and get rid of the Reardons. At the time, she was mean enough to do it--or at least threaten to.

There were times (even before the Gus years) when Harley got dour, shrill and bordering on self-righteous. God knows that dealing with the Spauldings and Beth, Harley had her reasons, but it got on people's nerves. I liked Hayley very much on ATWT. Her big story was a bulimia story that she was very good in. Some found her "too perky", but she was teen/young adult, so it worked for me. I think when she was filling in as Harley, they used her sparingly until Beth Ehlers returned. I couldn't tell you exactly how long she was in the role. But I think she either had filled in before this, or filled in again after. I can't be sure, but I think Jay saw the writing on the wall. Other than Maeve, Fletcher had never really had a successful romance (and I'd argue his with Maeve wasn't all that thrilling). While I can't really recall it, it doesn't sound like the writers were that committed to his romance with Holly either. It might've developed into something more if Michael had still been in the role of Roger, but once he was fired, the writers didn't seem to know what to do with Holly.

and that reminds me...I hated Fletcher and his nicknames for characters.

I remember that too @Khan While I liked Hayley, I don't think she would've worked long term as Harley. But for short bursts, she's able to carry story. I don't think Hayley ever did more soap work after ATWT.

As I recall, Beth had a medical emergency with her pregnancy and was out for a while. Hayley Sparks had been on ATWT in the role of Courtney Baxter Dixon.

Well, viewed by itself, I understand your reaction. It's really more of a finale week. The reason Dinah only had a cameo was that Gina left before shooting ended. I have my issues with the ending (too much focus on insignificant characters, etc), but it was more cohesive (imo) than it had been in years.

Lots of actresses tried that pixie cut. I was glad when it went away. I think you hit the nail on the head. Frank was the "normal" Cooper, sort of the plastic peanuts that kept Buzz and Harley (and Nadine before she was whacked) from grating together too much. I can't recall a story ever centered on Frank. He had romances, but they mostly seemed like filler, like with Dana (the girl who impersonated Beth and ended up being killed by Chelsea's stalker Rae). It's the reason he's the perfect beard at the end of the show for Natalia and Olivia's back-and-forth romance. I wish TPTB had just once, put Vanessa and Nola in a story where they worked together. I think that would've been a lot of fun to see them reluctantly on the same side of any issue. Reva spread a rumor that Josh had a "social" disease, but that's a bit in the future, after she and Josh broke up, but before she comes back married to HB in May. Vanessa (who by now knew Alan had brought Reva to town) had set Josh up with one of her college friends for a date. The friend avoids Josh's touch, and makes an excuse to leave. I think the friend tells Warren what Reva said...I'm not sure Vanessa knew what Reva had said. I'm not sure I'd call Reva fun....just unencumbered by the need to make her a "heroine" with endless coats of whitewash. (but I'm jaded...lol)

Yeah, in retrospect, Maeve probably got tired of coloring it. Later she goes to her natural gray. I was just glad she let it grow again. That pixie wasn't my favorite look for her.

Granted, we as viewers don't really understand how hard it is to course correct, especially at the beginning, when you don't have a "B" story for a character to lean into if their "A" story isn't working. It still feels very rough, but at some point, they need to make hard decisions on the casting side, imo. And you're right, '89 GL is kind of figuring out who and what was working and what wasn't. And they had the benefit of working with characters that were fully established and in many cases, had been played by the actors for years. Just random question, as long as we're also talking JvD's anniversary...when did Maureen Garrett take over the role of Holly?

LOL...well, Van's a little over the top and Reva (surprise) is WAY over the top....but I consider it an homage to screwball comedies, so I just roll with it. Van and Reva would've been so much more fun as straight up rivals.

@Khan lol. To get us back on track, today marks Jerry verDorn's debut as Ross. One of my favorite Ross moments starts at 1:14 @alwaysAMC it's been a blast having you! As they say, "welcome to the tribe!"

There's really no conflict within the family either--or when there is, it's quickly resolved. At least outside of Eva/Kat, and Eva isn't a problem for anyone else.

I just read an interview from just before the premiere with Val Jean, and specifically said she didn't want to do a show with a "downtrodden" black family. (and I'm paraphrasing) She'd seen enough of that. But (and I think it was brought up a lot in the discussion) without having a strong family to counter the Duprees, like you said, there's no conflict. The only premieres I've watched, Capitol and Bold, had exactly what you described, a source of conflict from the jump. What Val Jean's got is more Tyler Perry than anything Bell or Irna Phillips created. It's surface and slick.

I do wonder what they thought they'd accomplish with the Dani/Bill/Hayley story, which I guess they saw as their big hook. But yeah, the only couple that comes close to working is Dani/Andre, and that was purely accidental. (I do not count Anita/Vernon, who are clearly meant to be the bedrock couple.) The actors that truly showed some spark initially (for me that's Nicole, Kat and Eva) were stuck with absolute washouts. They really missed on a majority of the casting on the show, and it continues to hamstring them.

I was on the fence about watching it too. IMO, it really has to find some emotional resonance if it wants to make it to the five year mark. As much praise as I've heard for Val Jean over the years, it's surprising.

Oh, that's being very generous.

Right? It does almost feel like they're ashamed. And while I don't want to trash talk BtG---it's not exactly groudbreaking television. I forgot--but yeah, they did have June mention Jessica and her stories. I'm not sure that's slamming the door on a "universe" exactly. And it's not like they don't have scriptwriters on staff who could write some throwaway lines. (at least in ATWT's case. although all the P&G shows traded behind the scenes people almost as much as they traded actors._)

Y'know, couldn't they throw us P&G fans a bone? Instead of some (virtually) meaningless "crossover" with Y&R/B&B, why can't they figure out a way to bring up the Oakdale or Springfield folk? Anita even comes from Chicago. (which is close enough to either.) Maybe have her mention how she spent her first big royalty check on a Barbara Ryan Original. Either viewers get the easter egg or the don't. But the obviously one-sided calls with fauxRidgeForrester or three lines from Neil Winter's kid are stupid.

spit take...Reva unwilling to let Josh lay pipe? snort Sure, Jan. Kim probably had whoever came up with that idea fired on the spot.

I'm not a Beth Chamberlain fan. I really wish they hadn't brought her back in '97ish. Lord, imagine Reva having to mime what she wants? My eyes, my eyes!!

Was Rauch still there for the Beth/Lorelei story? La Zim scenery chewing in stereo surround sound? Lord love a duck.

"Reva's Amish Adventure!" playing now....ugh.

With our luck, they'd put up the last crappy five years, and that's it.

Yes, it's two separate incidents. Pharo's SA happened when she was around twelve. Reva got pregnant at 17, when she had sex with Billy. Mindy's mother had died, and Josh went off to college at Berkley. I've never heard a direct reference to the gap between Billy, Trish and Josh. But from the way Josh occasionally referenced their childhood (watching Billy in high school football games, while he ran up and down the sidelines for example), I'd say there's supposed to be at least six years between Billy and Josh. Reva's at least a year younger, since Josh was going to college and she got pregnant at 17. I can't stomach the scenes around Dylan's conception (Reva is just ticking me off in the present as she remembers the past and having concocted the rape story for Sarah's benefit), but I think she may be talking about how Josh didn't come back to Oklahoma the summer after his first year at college. One of the few references to Mindy's mother happens when Billy tells Phillip that he had gotten Mindy's mother pregnant and they'd had to get married. It sounded like that was during his college years. And IIRC, Blake had a minor car accident when she was chasing after Phillip. She was afraid he'd found out that Beth was alive, I think. Phillip was being gaslit that Beth was alive, and tried to convince Lillian to exhume Beth's grave to verify if her body was in it.

Maybe a basketball court set is too big an expense for that specific of a function, but a couple of shots of balls going through hoops, guys dribbling and bumping into each other until some blow up happened between Kial and Carlton doesn't seem that hard. Even the confrontation between Vanessa and Deanna was a let down to me. While Vanessa has gone on about Deanna for the past six months, that's not a substitute to seeing their relationship. I needed to see Deanna figure out that Vanessa was sleeping with Joey over more than three episodes. (or actually one) I just need the plot over Leslie's mansion to disappear. It's stupid.