P.J.

Oh, I knew the show tried selling that everyone considered Matt a good guy. And good enough for Van. (Why the guy can't find employment outside of Van's ex-in-laws is a question though...lol) HELL, at some point after Matt and Van divorced, Matt is back working with Josh and Billy...and in '08-'09, Billy goes out of his way to twice inform Matt that he's got his sights set on remarrying Vanessa.

Long returned in '87. This has to be a mid-late November episode, as it's after Sally's death and Reva mentions Alan and Van's engagement. The episode Reva referenced (Alan paying her for a "bedtime story" ; a story about her being bought a meal when she's a pre-teen by an older man) was August 12, 1987. Long's first episodes blew up Josh and Reva over Marah's supposed paternity and Ross and Van over her being involved in Alan's problems and not committing to Ross.

Harley Venton. Your criticism of Marland's era is valid, but otoh, those characters are free to cross in multiple ways. Van and Josh are backbiting each other at Spaulding, hanging at Wired for Sound, and causing waves for others (Josh causes problems for Kelly/Morgan and screws Carrie; Van is constantly interfering in Henry's search for Quint and trying to rope Tony). Tony has his family, gets some adventure with Quint and is flirting (and more) with plenty of women. While Long gives all of them love stories, (and I feel especially by that point, Vanessa really needed one) everyone ended up islanded. Tony and Annabelle can't generate story after Barbados, Josh slips into the void of Reva, and there's been plenty of criticism of Van's neutering. Hill and Leslie Ann end up dead, and Trish's romance with Ross stalls inexplicably. Obviously, no one bats a thousand. But I also feel that under Long, Spaulding and Cedars lose some of their prominence in Springfield. And just to circle back to the lack of friendships in Springfield, the only friend I ever recall Josh having in his entire run (outside of Billy and Van) is Will Jeffries, who wants to kill him. LOL.

I don't think Suzanne was ever meant to be more than a short term character. They tried much harder to make Johnny and Calla work, giving them families, etc. with mixed results. I'm not sure Suzanne even got a reason for working with Roger, other than the plot necessitated it.

I don't think anyone could've sold a triangle with Jim and Fletch. Oy... It's not like they didn't try and hook Hil up---she had an immense crush on Kelly that went nowhere, she flirted with Josh, she had a relationship with Derek and then Jim and Fletch. And there's a little something with Tony. If they hadn't killed her off, she might've been able to come in and fill that void after Mo's death.

@DeeVeei wish there were more if Ross and Justin up to watch. Theres stuff up around Diane's murder, and Carrie and Phillip, but it's not very much.

I think Chris and Beverlee were fantastic. But there are times it's hard to buy that there's anything other than hate between Alan and Alex. It's Alex six months of helping to kick Alan out of Spaulding, and turning around and saying she loves him. Like HUH? It's odd--maybe it's just that there's not a lot of their earlier relationship between Ed and Mike to see, but I completely agree---there doesn't seem to be a lot of affection there. And when you add Hillary in, I don't buy them as caring about each other very much at all.

I do think GL does some sibling relationships very well. Frank/Harley, Josh/Billy/Trish, Rita/Eve, and probably Tony/Maureen/Nola.

It's hard to believe she does. Maybe she's miffed if they're (at least Alex and Van) worried about the hospital's reputation more than Ed. (I think Ed is also embroiled in the Charlotte Wheaton case by this time.) Between Ed and Claire, Reva at least interacted with Claire a little at the time of Josh's accident. I doubt Ed and Reva ever interacted over more than some treatment she needed. He does come over the night her PPD showed itself at the country club, but it's off-screen. Or maybe it's just an excuse for the writers to script some random music video-like scene. Other than the Lewises and Spauldings, the people Reva's surrounded by in her stories are used up by the end. It's Kyle/Maeve/Sally, Will/Sonni, Annie, Dolly, the San Cristobal group, Jeffrey...they're not the core of the show. Even the other Shaynes who drift in and out...Cassie probably comes closest to being a part of the show's core. She at least manages to have stories outside of Reva.

eh...McTrash. Explains a lot. Y'know that episode where Reva and Phillip dance all over the Blue Orchid (where Kim shimmys like Tina Turner?) Reva supposedly is upset that Alex, Van and India are gossiping about Ed (I guess after it comes out that Claire's pregnant by him). But I've never found the entire eppy in English to see what they say. It's arguably the most interesting thing about Richard Van Vleet's Ed. lol

It's not exactly that I forgot that this was the finale week for both ATWT and GL, ....but it was the finale week for both shows.

Well, I don't doubt whoever was writing at that point (Weston?), probably barely knew Reva's history, much less her relationships around town with people. Or Lillian's for that matter. I guess what I'm asking is, was it Lillian that viewers might've still be sore at, or was it a skewed version of events? Because (and depending on when this is, before or after Reva's skulked around town for months avoiding her kids and still plans on leaving) Reva's past is, to politely put it, checkered. And honestly, in any discussion of her past, it'd be hard to avoid the less than admirable parts. And I'm making the assumption that Lillian's included because she and Annie are both nurses, and have some kind of relationship. Personally, yes, at times Vanessa became a bigger saint than Mo, and I wish she would've let it rip a little more. The way she went out of her way to "understand" Nadine made me sick. So if Van let a little bit of personal knowledge about ol' Reeve out, I can't say I'm sorry. Van put up with a lot of her crap too.

I just gotta ask the question---is it really possible to "trash" talk Reva? Vanessa could've told the unvarnished truth about her ex-sister-in-law, which was sordid enough.

Yes, Lillian was. Why? Probably mostly due to Hawk. Wasn't this also shortly after Beth's "death", where people were worried about her? But otherwise, no Reva and Lillian never really developed a friendship. They probably had some kind of scenes, many years later when Reva had her cancer story. But other than Alex (and, of course Maureen), I can't recall Lillian having a friend. And of course, Reva was too busy creating her own messes to care about someone else's.

I'd love to believe that TIIC truly valued the vets. But I am surprised how many really popular characters they chose not to recast. Rita and Hope head that list.

Or when you have your biggest signature couple's wedding in a field surrounded mostly by people the audience has never met. LOL...Reva had more bridesmaids at her non-wedding to Kyle than she did to all her marriages to Josh combined.

I was probably glad that Ellen was making those returns, but the Van/Mo one felt very lazily written and directed. "Let's put two women in a blindingly lit room and then make Dinah a victim of her stupidity so Van has yet another reason to feel like a bad mother." UGH.

The show would've called them friends, but with a few notable exceptions, I don't think GL did friendships well.

From the '80's? They go from enemies to almost friend-adjacent In-Laws. They are never overtly friendly (as Reva marrying/dating through the Lewis/Sampsons makes Vanessa distrust her) but they also never go out of their way to hurt each other either. There are significant moments when they put their cards out on the table with each other. Vanessa warns Reva that Billy is out to get her (when Josh is paralyzed) before she walks out on Billy. Reva tries to get Van to see she's addicted to painkillers after Bill was born. They tussle over Alan briefly, which isn't as much against each other as trying to get Alan to mean what he says to either of them. It's Vanessa who realizes that Reva is more than "being Reva" when her PPD strikes. They're more friend-ish if they're both involved with Billy and Josh. If they're not in the Lewis' sphere, they aren't seen interacting as much. Even when Maeve returns in '06(ish) they barely interact. Reva has an ITL where Maeve has a brief cameo, which is cute. But otherwise, I don't think they have a lot to do with each other until the final month when Billy and Van are including Reva in their wedding. Josh and Vanessa are much more friends than Vanessa and Reva are.

Blake and Ross' first wedding? I swear it was on the steps of City Hall. It was in the vein of Frank and Eleni's 5th Street wedding, where it's sort of "outdoors". Blake and Harley ended up in the Country Club pool in '90, when they're enemies (Blake's having an affair with Alan-Michael, and Harley almost uses a tape of them together to get a huge divorce settlement). The fountain thing with Jon and Reva was a deliberate revisiting of Reva's "big moment". (BTW, after The Slut of Springfield moment, Rick sort of dunks Mindy into the same fountain and scrubs off her makeup because he's sick of her attitude.)

I know people apparently loved Mary Stuart as Meta, but I wish they'd brought Barbara back when Holly returned in '89. It would've naturally filled that gap they tried filling with Sarah and Lainie Bauer. No, I'm sure Adam's return was just a clumsy attempt at doing a vet return. Why bother inserting him in a second day's worth of scenes when they'd have to pay him? Just need him to walk Blake down the aisle. RME.

Last week, we had to explain All in the Family to a girl in my office. *ouch*

It might've been interesting to bring back Barbara Berjer, and hook HB and Barbara up. Barb wouldn't have put up with Reva's nonsense, and HB/Barb couldn't have been worse than HB/Alex. Kyle's mother could've simply been some old affair of HB's, and dead.

*sigh* the younger generation, to not know Clark Gable pains me. Anyway, Ross does look handsome in a tux. I'd guess they're supposed to be Harlow/Beery from Dinner at Eight. Whenever they put Maeve in a longer wig, it reminds me of early '80's Vanessa.