Soaplovers

Bill Bell seemed kind of impulsive in his writing. He probably decided to refocus the show on Spectra vs Forrester... and just dropped the Logan family. Only reason he probably kept Donna was because she was more connected to the concept of the show due to her being model, etc... then the other Logans. I think it was a shame that they dropped Nick and also dropped the Donna/Bill mentor relationship... but I did think it was wise to tie her to the Spectras via her friendship with Macy (fulfilling the void left by Katie) and being a model for their brand. And it worked to further the dislike Stephanie had for the Logan's because she viewed Donna working for Spectra as another black mark she had against that family. I just didn't like that the show had her fall for Thorne when I think she could have been viable with her own story/focus over on the Spectra side. I also don't think Bill Bell was capable of writing a modern woman without tying her to a man.. and I think that's what he tried to do with Donna in year 3 with Thorne before having her just floating around with nothing to do in year 4 except be the talk to for Brooke and a recast Storm.

From what I heard, she got paid for two contracts in season 8... the Melissa one, and the contract for playing Samantha.

I do sense in the early episodes Beth/Eric were end game especially with the original actress playing Beth. Interesting that in the bible that Caroline was only meant to be short term. And while I agree with phasing out the Logans, I do think that Brooke being the sole Logan and being focused on did hinder the show. She was kind of a limited character in terms of story avenues. On the other hand, Donna had a lot more avenues to have explored with being a model, working briefly at Spencer Publications, and having that pseudo father figure Bill....her story got short shafted by year 3..and becoming tied to Thorne in year 3.

I don't get why they didn't create an Italian American character for Alfonso to play. Someone back with an axe to grind against Angela due to her family losing their land, etc.

I partly think Ryne is an introvert, but seeing how Jenn acted after drinking too much...I think he shuts down because of how verbally abusive she gets. On the surface, you would be right about Heather...but she's a classist. A modern day Karen.

Rhoda was good..when she was married and it was like a Mad about you for the 70s. When they broke up, ratings did fall and the show became a pale version of Mary Tyler Moore. Phyllis had a good start..but having a lead actress murdered in real life after a few episodes had filmed was an omen. Had that not happened..I think it would have lasted beyond 2 seasons. One the issues with spin offs is that the character is watered down in order to be the lead. Rhoda, Addison on Private Practice (when she would visit Grey's, she was her old self), the Ropers, etc.

I would have liked the Blair buying Eastland concept if Jo was the teacher working there..and the two having to be co Mrs Garrett's.

I remember the show started hinting at pairing Drew and J Chamberlain...but Ethan Erickson quit. regarding Cain... I think Pam Long had created his character with the intention of pairing him with Reva. However, she left the writing team in early 1986 for maternity leave and then was on SFT. So I don't know if Cain would have ended up psycho...or if she would have used him as a worthy obstacle once Josh came back in late 1986. Mr Lindsey: Holly's 3rd husband during her Switzerland years. Blake and him didn't get along..and the marriage caused friction between Holly and Blake. Shame no writers thought to bring him on during the late 90s/early 2000s for Holly.

KL should have made her a mini Abby in training. Imagine Karen raising a mini Abby (Diana) and Abby raising a mini Karen (Olivia). The idea was touched on some with Diana going to Abby for advice/comfort...while Olivia would go to Val and, to a lesser extent, Karen. I'm glad the show remembered Olivia and Val's bond...where Olivia went to Val for advice on her marriage. A small scene..but showed how close the two were even if not in scenes as much in later seasons. I also liked seeing the day to day things all the characters did...Lilimae and Val at the grocery store...Abby/Gary taking Olivia and Brian to a fast food restaurant. Also one time Abby knew how to make fries..and Greg asked how she learned it..and she said 'I worked at a fast food restaurant' when I was young. Showing Abby still had a bit of working class in her. Those little moments made them more relatable. Could you imagine Blake or Krystal at a fast food restaurant..or Alexis at the supermarket?

OC: Heather isn't perfect, in fact, she's probably the most insecure housewife I've ever seen. And she covers her insecurities by looking down on others. She isn't any better than Ryne. And I wonder if Ryne shuts down because of the way his wife drinks. She seems emotionally abusive and holds her profession/education over his head. If the roles were reversed, people would be all on her side. Double standard. NJ Can I say team no one? I wouldn't be friends with any of them....well except Jackie (only to see Evan in a swimsuit).

Bet these women wished Meredith were still not engaging lol

RHOSLC With Mary now gone, I'm curious who the next target will be. And I believe that Mary had the same function on SLC that Kim Richards had on BH....and her absence will create a void like Kim's did on BH.

Agree. Look at how Abby managed to convince her ex she was in love with him, and then filed a court order barring him from being around the kids. All because he took her kids and hurt her. You know she would done anything to get her kids back...and I think had she been in Alexis' shoes...she would have married someone with as much power and wealth as Blake in order to get her kids back.

Not only did Paper Dolls get placed in a shaky timeslot, it was also preempted due to the World Series. Dallas or Knots Landing could handle that..but a new soap needs to be on every week in order to get people hooked. @te.I would have dropped the Harper angle since the wealthy family angle was already handled. Dack Rambo could have been Wesley looking for a model for his cosmetics company, Blair could have still been the 'aging' model, and the red headed lawyer could have been legal counsel for Racine's agency..and her boyfriend could have still done the story on Racine.

You needed someone strong willed to lift the weak writing for Frankie....like how Linda Evan's did that for Krystle

Out of the short-lived 80s primetime soaps I've seen.. I actually think Paper Dolls had a lot of potential with an appealing anti-heroine lead Morgan Fairchild. Had the show just focused on the modeling agency, models, and the models parents.. it would have done much better. Berrenger's had a bad timeslot, and too many characters. I believe this was a Lynn Latham written show? Bare Essence, I wish I could see because I loved the mini series... but it sounds like it isn't just set in NYC.. but also in Europe. It sounds like the tv show didn't focus on the parts that made the mini series so good.

I think they could have made Sable and Frankie former step sisters, and it would have been more believable. From watching season 2, it seemed like the show was finding its way. Sable was being written as more sympathic, while I liked that the show kind of found its Claudia in Adrienne. I do wonder how Fallon's experience with the UFO would have been resolved in season 3. My guess would have been more conflict between Jeff/Fallon with him assuming it was due to her past issues with the tumor... with Miles stepping in to comfort Fallon.

I always thought Donna going back to David made her look dumb. I remember season 1 was all social issues of the week. However, I loved the slumber party episode. Good character developing..and accidental foreshadowing of Kelly/Brenda/Dylan

I think Marcia Cross was too tied to the Pierce Lawton story. Was her character gone before Marcus took over? I don't even recall if much info was divulged about her character or not. She would have been a better option for the stories given to Kate's roommate Vanessa..imho

What I mean by Val restoration was that after the crappy stories provided to her in season 11 and 12, the waitress subplot was the first step in restoring her character. Like @Khansaid.. it was a happy accident that Romano and co had no idea about Val's previous history and they actually ended up writing her in character. Thus, when Ann Marcus took over in the final stretch of season 13, Val was ready to take on a new direction story wise and didn't need to be repaired.

Ironically John Romano and company were able to restore Val. While her teaching Lynette, the waitress, how to read was that early 90s preachy element.. it was in character for Val to take wayward woman under her wing (Annie, Olivia, Abby.. at first). Plus, she and Gary were fighting about the Tidal Wave project with him mortaging the ranch while she was being the cautious voice of reason. And she also kind of took Kate under her wing... providing her with a maternal figure that she was lacking from Claudia. I think Ann Marcus' coming back in those final episodes of season 13 kind of reset Claudia's story with Alex starting to date Claudia's daughter Kate... and she/Alex were kind of blackmailing one another. And I liked the Anne/Claudia/Greg/Nick story from season 14 as well. However, I think the taint of Claudia's season 12 and early season 13 stories made her a poor Abby replacement. Abby wanted money/power.. but she did love her children... which we couldn't say the same about Claudia.

Do you guys think the writers of season 13 and 14 were able to salvage Claudia?

Thinking about it, Lotus Point was Abby's baby in season 5. She was going to build a huge complex without telling Gary, plus not tell Karen she inherited half the property when Sid died. At the start of season 6, Gary took over how it would run and included Karen. Hence the parks,.cabin, etc. So I could see Abby waiting for an opportunity to take back what was hers..hence the Murkame scam. And when she knew she would get caught, she donated it as a preserve to cover her tracks. I understand the motivation for her cutting Gary and Karen out of it..but the execution risked putting Abby into one note villain territory. For all we know, Claudia showed what probably would have happened had Donna Mills not left when she did.

Cybill would have been good. Problem was that CBS skewed older, and they would have gone for this had it been at 9 PM instead of 8 PM...plus had a better mix of older and younger characters. The Linda/Allen/Nikki story was actually the strongest story and most realistic. Older man/younger woman, loveless marriage between older man/older woman, etc. I think the Stephanie/Mark characters were the problem. I also think Gerald Mcraney was a good hire..and he and Lauren Hutton had a good rapport.

The start of the end of KL. Laura kept Abby in check, Abby kept Karen in check, while neither Laura nor Abby enabled Val like Karen did. This final scene clearly showed Abby would always come out on top. She wasn't OTT like Alexis nor Angela nor had a one track mind like JR. She was someone you might run into in your day to day life. And she was one that schemed and worked her way to the top coming from a working class family.