DRW50

I don't think anyone liked his exit, or the story in general. Fletcher hadn't really felt like himself for several years before he left (I say that as maybe the only Fletcher fan on here) and as you said, his exit should have had more immediate consequences than it did. I know what you meant about the Beth and Carl story but at the time I thought it at least laid some type of groundwork for Beth's behavior and I thought there was a certain menace in Carl. At this point most of my view of the show was background junk food. I think if I'd had to stop and think about stuff like the clone story I would have stopped watching.

Thanks. I guess that's the good and the bad of burning through stories so quickly. I can't see Carrington or Robin going near him. (nothing against Mayer himself - the character just seems like a sleaze)

I didn't even know that. As if I couldn't hate the character more. Reminds me of when EastEnders brought in some kind of fun-loving fireman viewers were meant to love because he'd bullied Ian Beale, the town snidely, when they were in school. As soon as the fireman came on the show, he flushed Ian's head down the toilet. When watching the Quola clips on Youtube years back, I wondered if I hit the moment where Marland's material ended because Tony suddenly started to treat Nola with some love and care, even as he still had issues with her. I know Nola was a headache even when reformed, but so much of the time in the Marland material I've seen Tony is just so unpleasant to her. This also seems to be when they go from being suspicious of Quint to seeing him as a member of the family.

There did always seem to be a bit of Norma Desmond with Sophia. Didn't she already have a relationship with a younger man who tried to kill her (TJ or whoever with the awful mullet), or am I mixing stories up? I do think seeing how she'd move forward after she and CC reconciled for the 50th time could have been interesting. (I imagine ten more breakups, but something else, please)

The reason I could enjoy it with Derek, or at least tolerate it, is because he had more of a humor. I do see the sanctimony though. I'm not surprised they didn't realize he would have any fans, considering the men they were pushing at P&G at this time, like pornstache Brad on ATWT...

When you add in that Ed was so stressed over their relationship that he regenerated, she really was going through it.

Oh yes...Tony was even worse. How any woman could ever choose him over Derek - honestly, I think I would have preferred finding Steven Jackson, wherever he was by that time, for a quiet evening over dealing with Tony.

I was surprised when I realized that shot in the disco credits of Josh eyeing up a woman and her sexy legs was Nola. I agree that more could have been done to delay Quint and Nola. At least with Kelly and Morgan it was presumably meant to be a cautionary tale of marrying too quickly, but the intense dullness of the recast took away the message. I wish I could see more of what you've all described when Morgan finally dumps his ass.

It's not where I'd see them going either, but the show was very plot-led at that time and so were the romantic pairings. If I could believe Vanessa having to humiliate herself for the deadly dull Mark, I could probably believe her having something with Josh.

Regarding Josh and Vanessa, the only time I can see them as a couple is their first few years on the show, when they were rich, catty bitches alienated from most of "good" Springfield, to the point where I remember one 1982 episode in Wired for Sound (wasn't that the name of the disco?) that has them both prowling the place, being judged nonstop by all of Marland's morally righteous creations. (I wish they'd kept some of that designer-sunglasses aspect with Josh later on but I suppose "good" characters aren't meant to luxuriate in their money) If Marland had stayed with GL, I could see them eventually circling each other the way Joe Bradley and Diane did - amoral people who couldn't trust each other as partners in crime or in bed, maybe with a less fatal outcome. If Marland had introduced HB and Billy, I imagine they would be very different, and Billy wouldn't have been paired with Vanessa. In a story where Vanessa found out Quint was Henry's son, I could see her convincing Josh to try to break up Quint and Nola (promising him some kind of business help or whatever), only to become jealous at seeing Josh wooing a woman she hates instead of her.

When you don't tell stories about how people change with age, you're missing out on the full soap experience. EastEnders has a character, Kathy, who, probably because she looks young for being in her 70s, is often given stories that involve affairs, or, at one point, battering her daughter-in-law, with no real consequence or meaning. And various references to her passing for 49, being a GILF, and so on. But that's something that has bugged me about soaps for 20+ years now. I do wonder how SB would have used Sophia if the show had continued.

There's a strange culture in place now where older women are styled younger while many younger women, at least those with money, seem to carve up their faces to try to look older. I know someone who is in her 70s but tries to style her hair the same way she did 50 years ago, part of how she tries to act much younger, behavior that has led to multiple falls and surgeries...I don't think someone should have to act a certain age, but it does make you worry. Of course there are many men who make the same mistakes, or worse. The mid/late '80s had the issues where a lot of women seemed to have to dress older or more conservatively to try to "prove" something. On SB I think Marcy Walker also had some unflattering styling for similar reasons.

I remember some clip from when he first woke up and Britt meeting him, and she seemed nervous and he had a kind of smug of dark look on his face. There was another where everyone left him alone in his hospital room and I thought he looked the same way once they were gone. Who knows where that's meant to lead, but I took it as some hint.

I keep meaning to go back and finish your other recent recaps - this thread moves fast - but I did want to thank you once again, especially as you are reminding me of a great deal I'd forgotten from this period. Matt being called Vanessa's son - another little dig from Rauch or whoever, I assume. More hints of Cassie/Josh, which happens repeatedly in these years (the hints). I wasn't sure if Marcus and Dahlia were still around. Poor Kevin "Daytime Emmy winner" Mambo. Josh sleeping with the clone always felt a little too far for me, although I had a low enough opinion of Josh to where I wasn't outraged. The main memory I ever have of Sean is that he had the best chest on the show. My memory of the Beth and Carl story is of it being better than it should have been, as it helps explain some of Beth's behavior and BC as well as the guy who played Carl do some good work.

@slick jones I didn't see this listed in Joan Bennett's IMDB page, although I may be wrong. Thought it might be new to you as well.

When you represent most of the town for free, this is the end result.

Great find @MissPalmer . I'd forgotten there was another Viki, let alone a photo of her.

Thank you for sharing this. One of the best trailers. I remember seeing this on Encore when I was probably too young. The movie is like a dream you can't wake up from - some of her flashbacks have haunted me ever since. Diane was mostly known for her vibrant, quirky personality, her laugh, her comedies, and how timeless she felt, never degrading herself with the bad procedures or bad PR relationships of many. And those movies, Baby Boom, Something's Gotta Give, etc. please many. I think I'll always remember her work in dramas though, especially the '70s or early '80s dramas that were a last gasp of intelligent for Hollywood. Her work in Reds, the clip @Vee shared, is superb, the clarity of her dream along with the disillusion. Pretty much no one since can compare to the '70s stars, the last gasp in many ways.

Since there's been some talk about "Hold on to Love" again recently, I remembered I had this from a soap channel that was briefly up last year and had a lot of rare content. It's alternate versions of the theme. I should warn this has loud beeping at the start.

I wonder if Cindy would have returned to GL if asked for a Jackie return story, at least by the time her primetime career had cooled off. Not that GL cared...

It does seem like he was going to say more if given the chance. Watching some of that again made me realize it was Hillary, not Ellen, who told the story of Scott Holmes working in Charleston - she said that a friend of hers was on a tour there and recognized him. Another neat little story I had not fully heard on first watch is that Barbara was one of the only ATWT characters Hillary knew before joining the show because a friend of hers was a big fan of Barbara. And that friend was Dick Wolf's first wife.

She has that late '80s CBS look. Either a role like that that or someone who got killed off by a psycho on Knots after about four episodes. Maybe the Luke stuff was just mentioned in his later years. I have such contempt for Luke that I may just be casting aspersions retroactively. And yes, Sarah's Carly was ugly and riveting to watch.

Not to take this back into the past too much, and your memory is better than mine, but I have vague memories of stuff like heavy implications of Luke sleeping with prostitutes throughout his marriage even by the late '90s. I do agree Luke's contempt for Lucky didn't really start until Greg was in the role. Lucky and Lulu both had a priority in a way which also felt like reinforcing Guza's hostilities, for me - JJ also had to play Lucky being vile toward the woman he was meant to love, and not caring about the kids much, while JMB (badly) played Luke Jr. Carly is interesting to me because I never really loved the writing for her. If I look back I may appreciate it more now, especially with what she has become. Either way, I can't see KT being able to play it. She has her moments but comes across with the depth of a love interest on Jake and the Fatman who turns out to be the killer.

I think the seeds were already being sewn in 1997 because that's when Tony's contempt for L&L and for Luke being a husband or father was starting to be nurtured That's what put Lulu and Lucky where they are now. I never really thought Lucky's return was going to work, for that and several other reasons, although I thought it was going to last longer than it did. One could argue that Carly was written in an uglier way than Britt, even if they tried for some sympathy (like when Carly had agoraphobia for five minutes), but Sarah was just so much better.