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Y&R April 2021 Discussion Thread


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1 hour ago, Chatty Cakes said:

I find nothing entertaining about her storylines at present time. 

I will somehow defend MS and Phyllis here and say that's not their fault. That is undoubtedly the writing. They brought her back in the circumstances we know and they have no idea what to do with her.

The current stuff ain't it. I am fine with a character being unlikeable or irritating if I see the point. Plenty of times over the years was I completely over Phyllis but I *got it*. I got what story they were telling and what her place was on the show.
This Sally vendetta just reads as "keeping her occupied" rather than a real character-driven plot.

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Is it just me, or could Ashland be incapacitated and Tara is calling the shots? They haven't shown him at all since his "recovery".  Why else would Jabot be out of danger?  Second chance or not, AL doesn't come off to me as a Scrooge...the morning after type of character.

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At this point, Phyllis is PLAYED OUT, especially with the shoddy writing in the last few years.

After over 25 years of airtime, there's  really nothing left for her, especially as she is a scheming type of character. She's married and boinked every guy in town and only has her vapid daughter as family.

Phyllis could easily have left town years ago.

I admit I've never been a fan of the character or actress and she is not alone as being in the played out category, but I feel she is expendable.

 

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15 hours ago, Ponds said:

I dislike the actress far more than the character.  GH is so much better without her.


You’re free to dislike Michelle Stafford. I like her. And BTW, the character of Nina on GH didn’t work until recently. Cynthia Watros didn’t do well with awful writing, either.

 

On 4/29/2021 at 1:59 AM, FrenchBug82 said:


Well, she is a psychopath. She attempted to commit murder twice.
You're free to take whichever side in the battle with Sally but the "I hate Phyllis" crowd will always win *that* argument on whether she is a psycho. 


Then you must agree that most or at least many legacy characters are psychopaths if we look at what their character has done. Victor? Chelsea? Nikki? Adam? Kevin? Gloria? Michael? Should I go on?

 

I don’t want to argue with you, especially because I usually love your soap insights. But I’m bothered when boards turn on an ACTOR and throw insults around about the character as a sideline. But hey, that’s me. I realize people can post what they want — just as I can disagree.

 

 

2 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

At this point, Phyllis is PLAYED OUT, especially with the shoddy writing in the last few years.

After over 25 years of airtime, there's  really nothing left for her, especially as she is a scheming type of character. She's married and boinked every guy in town and only has her vapid daughter as family.

Phyllis could easily have left town years ago.

I admit I've never been a fan of the character or actress and she is not alone as being in the played out category, but I feel she is expendable.

 


The writing hasn’t been particularly good for ANY character on the show, not just Phyllis. I can make the case that every single character on the canvas is PLAYED OUT by those standards.

 

At least you admit it’s the actress — Michelle Stafford — who bothers you so much. You’re not the only one, but just saying “the actress who plays Phyllis” doesn’t blunt the negativity towards Stafford.

 

 

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16 minutes ago, ranger1rg said:

The writing hasn’t been particularly good for ANY character on the show, not just Phyllis. I can make the case that every single character on the canvas is PLAYED OUT by those standards.

 

At least you admit it’s the actress — Michelle Stafford — who bothers you so much. You’re not the only one, but just saying “the actress who plays Phyllis” doesn’t blunt the negativity towards Stafford.

Totally agree that a lot of vet characters have been victim to poor character development and are crowding the canvas but realistically we are not going to see Eric Braeden or Amelia Heinle disappearing anytime soon.

Phyllis is one of several characters that have limited story possibilities with the show in its current state and

when MS departed a few years back,I think they should have rested the character until her return.

Gina Tognoni would have had the chance to portray a new character who could have invigorated  some of the other vet characters.

So Phyllis return would have had more impact.

 

We all have our likes and dislikes re actors/characters/stories. That's why we can have interesting discussions...

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3 minutes ago, irishguy1985 said:

looks like COVID restrictions have started to be lifted on these shows. Summer and Kyle were sitting awfully close today instead of miles apart.

Yeah, they’ve had two Billy/Lily sex romps and a deep tongue-down between Devon and Mishael’s Amanda, so I think things have loosened up.


Is it weird that when I saw Nick’s hands holding Faith’s, I thought they belonged to a black man? The lighting on this show is so odd.

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12 hours ago, ranger1rg said:

Then you must agree that most or at least many legacy characters are psychopaths if we look at what their character has done. Victor? Chelsea? Nikki? Adam? Kevin? Gloria? Michael? Should I go on?

Yes. Many absolutely are.
I am not sure what point you are trying to make here. These people (minus Nikki whose crime was accidental) are all awful people - and so is Phyllis. The reason she is in the higher echelon is because she has attempted murder which only Kevin and now Chelsea have done - Michael somewhere around there too depending on interpretation of events.

But yes. I am not saying she is unique in being a psychopath. I am saying she is. Not sure why liking her must involve denying the obvious and frankly this is what the defensiveness around that particular comment on her "smile" rings like.
Yes, that commenter was clearly coming from an ugly place and I am not entirely comfortable with it and I am not sure the "smile" was really that worthy of getting as angry about as they did. But I didn't find the response particularly convincing either.
Phyllis is a psycho and I don't find her likeable as a character, even if she sometimes has been interesting. All fair game to say and point out (and for you to disagree with!)
And our completely objective opinions often involve double-standards. Many Phyllis fans will detest Adam when there is no fair reason to find one morally superior to the other. Works all ways! But that's part of the fabric of life. We react differently to different people.

 

12 hours ago, ranger1rg said:

But I’m bothered when boards turn on an ACTOR and throw insults around about the character as a sideline.


OK Now you are conflating stuff.
First we 100% entitled to detest and criticize a character based on their actions on-screen. If we are not talking about our opinions of FICTIONAL characters, then what are we doing here? That's silly. I am not exactly sure what you are arguing we should be doing. I don't really go about insulting characters but we sure as hell are entitled to call them psycho when they try to murder people.
And don't go about confusing the limited criticisms I have made - sometimes purposefully narrowing the topic compared with broader a lot more aggressive comments - with some of the irrational cross-the-line stuff that has been posted.

Indeed, where we 100% agree is about not insulting an actor/ress. You will note I have not done that - and have tried to pull back the other posters who are going there.
I don't know MS and while I am not a fan of the scientology stuff and some of the BTS stories I have heard, I have never called her any names or made any assumptions about who she is as a person. I detested the comment that was made about her "aging". Not only is it silly (she looks fantastic) but it is beyond the pale. 
I do raise my hand and say I do not like MS's acting. And it makes Phyllis more grating to me than when she was played by an actress that I found better. That was my point. It is not a personal insult and we are entitled to judge the acting of performers. She has a lot of fans, have had a great career and been up for many awards. I am sure the fact her acting style is off-putting to me won't keep her up at night.
I never went personal and I don't approve of those who do - and there are certainly people who have crossed the line into unnecessary viciousness on MS in this thread. You have my backing on that and I understand that may be why there is some defensiveness in return.

But judgement about a character or acting are fair game. Personal attacks are not and I have not indulged in them. 
All the stuff about MS personally, her age, her looks or whatever are uncool and inappropriate. You will recall I said the same when Grossman was in the crosshair a month or so ago. But don't direct that pushback at me because I didn't go there. My criticisms were narrow and IMO fair game: Phyllis is a psycho and I liked her better when she was played by someone whose acting I responded better to.
 

12 hours ago, ranger1rg said:

The writing hasn’t been particularly good for ANY character on the show, not just Phyllis. I can make the case that every single character on the canvas is PLAYED OUT by those standards.


I completely agree with that as I tried to express above. I am not a Phyllis fan but I completely embrace that she is part of the fabric of the show and there is no reason she couldn't be more interesting with better writing. I'd still find her irritating - and she'd still be a psycho - but at least I'd be interested to see what they do with her. 
The petty out-of-nowhere vendetta against Sally isn't it.

12 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

We all have our likes and dislikes re actors/characters/stories. That's why we can have interesting discussions...


Bingo. And they don't have to be particularly rational or coherent. Part of it is just subjective and that's OK.
Some people are certainly more vehement than they should be about FICTIONAL characters and some people translate their fair likes/dislikes onto personal insults towards performers. I ain't cool with that but we also can choose what we engage and not engage with 

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Posted (edited)
On 4/29/2021 at 10:30 AM, Ponds said:

I dislike the actress far more than the character.  GH is so much better without her.

 Gina hasn't had a career in two years. 

Edited by Dylan
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Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, Dylan said:

 Gina hasn't had a career in two years. 

 

We know you've only watched one of these shows for like 20 minutes but do you know how often that's the case for soap opera stars? Especially now? Where is Michelle Stafford's non-daytime career in the last 20 years outside of her webseries no one watched and tiny indies that literally every soap star does? We'll wait.

Edited by Vee
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9 hours ago, FrenchBug82 said:

Yes. Many absolutely are.
I am not sure what point you are trying to make here. These people (minus Nikki whose crime was accidental) are all awful people - and so is Phyllis. The reason she is in the higher echelon is because she has attempted murder which only Kevin and now Chelsea have done - Michael somewhere around there too depending on interpretation of events.

But yes. I am not saying she is unique in being a psychopath. I am saying she is. Not sure why liking her must involve denying the obvious and frankly this is what the defensiveness around that particular comment on her "smile" rings like.
Yes, that commenter was clearly coming from an ugly place and I am not entirely comfortable with it and I am not sure the "smile" was really that worthy of getting as angry about as they did. But I didn't find the response particularly convincing either.
Phyllis is a psycho and I don't find her likeable as a character, even if she sometimes has been interesting. All fair game to say and point out (and for you to disagree with!)
And our completely objective opinions often involve double-standards. Many Phyllis fans will detest Adam when there is no fair reason to find one morally superior to the other. Works all ways! But that's part of the fabric of life. We react differently to different people.

 


OK Now you are conflating stuff.
First we 100% entitled to detest and criticize a character based on their actions on-screen. If we are not talking about our opinions of FICTIONAL characters, then what are we doing here? That's silly. I am not exactly sure what you are arguing we should be doing. I don't really go about insulting characters but we sure as hell are entitled to call them psycho when they try to murder people.
And don't go about confusing the limited criticisms I have made - sometimes purposefully narrowing the topic compared with broader a lot more aggressive comments - with some of the irrational cross-the-line stuff that has been posted.

Indeed, where we 100% agree is about not insulting an actor/ress. You will note I have not done that - and have tried to pull back the other posters who are going there.
I don't know MS and while I am not a fan of the scientology stuff and some of the BTS stories I have heard, I have never called her any names or made any assumptions about who she is as a person. I detested the comment that was made about her "aging". Not only is it silly (she looks fantastic) but it is beyond the pale. 
I do raise my hand and say I do not like MS's acting. And it makes Phyllis more grating to me than when she was played by an actress that I found better. That was my point. It is not a personal insult and we are entitled to judge the acting of performers. She has a lot of fans, have had a great career and been up for many awards. I am sure the fact her acting style is off-putting to me won't keep her up at night.
I never went personal and I don't approve of those who do - and there are certainly people who have crossed the line into unnecessary viciousness on MS in this thread. You have my backing on that and I understand that may be why there is some defensiveness in return.

But judgement about a character or acting are fair game. Personal attacks are not and I have not indulged in them. 
All the stuff about MS personally, her age, her looks or whatever are uncool and inappropriate. You will recall I said the same when Grossman was in the crosshair a month or so ago. But don't direct that pushback at me because I didn't go there. My criticisms were narrow and IMO fair game: Phyllis is a psycho and I liked her better when she was played by someone whose acting I responded better to.
 


I completely agree with that as I tried to express above. I am not a Phyllis fan but I completely embrace that she is part of the fabric of the show and there is no reason she couldn't be more interesting with better writing. I'd still find her irritating - and she'd still be a psycho - but at least I'd be interested to see what they do with her. 
The petty out-of-nowhere vendetta against Sally isn't it.


Bingo. And they don't have to be particularly rational or coherent. Part of it is just subjective and that's OK.
Some people are certainly more vehement than they should be about FICTIONAL characters and some people translate their fair likes/dislikes onto personal insults towards performers. I ain't cool with that but we also can choose what we engage and not engage with 


i appreciate your comments, and I pretty much agree with all you’ve said. I know you haven’t resorted to personal attacks on Michelle Stafford and that your comments are primarily about character.

 

I may have failed in communicating how I feel, and I admit I was defensive in my responses. I just have a huge problem with ugliness directed at an actor — as you have also agreed with. I think Stafford gets hit especially hard here.

 

I know you steer clear of those personal attacks and direct the discussion away from them. I applaud that. Still, sometimes I feel the need to literally respond to those attacks. I understand why you don’t, but I sometimes feel enough is enough. 
 

Your insights and thoughtful discussion is there, but before and after your posts? Agreement with you AND those personal insults and attacks. I don’t think you’ve done anything wrong or have encouraged any of the smack talk.

 

BTW, I am not some Michelle Stafford stan. I’m not some crazed person who goes nuts when she’s criticized. I do understand her acting choices aren’t everyone’s cup of tea. 
 

I’ve heard the Scientology rumors — and I have zero use for that cult — but unless I missed something, she’s awfully quiet about those or any religious / spiritual beliefs. She comes across as very socially liberal to me, and almost seems like someone not into organized religion/spirituality/cultism at all. If you told me she was an atheist, I’d believe it.

 

I’ll never understand those who fall into Scientology, but as long as she doesn’t broadcast their garbage and preach, I won’t criticize her for it. 
 

Anyway, thanks again for taking the time to discuss this. I loved Gina Tognoni as Phyllis, but I love Stafford, too, tics and all. I do wish the writing was better for her.

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37 minutes ago, ranger1rg said:

I may have failed in communicating how I feel, and I admit I was defensive in my responses. I just have a huge problem with ugliness directed at an actor — as you have also agreed with. I think Stafford gets hit especially hard here.

There has definitely been unnecessary ugliness aimed at her and that's why I understand the defensiveness. 
In any case I am delighted we end up almost entirely in the same place, which frankly I suspected all along. 
 

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Let’s face it, if there was one good thing JFP did was to rid the show of Da Stafford There was zero demand that she return at all and her return has failed on every level so much that now I see former GT haters longing for her Phyllis again. Phyllis is already a complex character to write for especially for incompetent nincompoops like JG, having a bored lazy actress like Giggly Heffa only compounds the problem ever worse. 

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Posted (edited)

Stafford didn't help herself on the demand front by publicly claiming that she would "never return" to Y&R only to do so when GH wouldn't nudge on her contract demands. 

Edited by BetterForgotten
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I have been banned from another board for being too “mean” about Stanford and Hunter King. There was a divide during the Lola vs Summer time period and people got worked up about it and they came down on the anti Phyllis people. I don’t see what’s terrible about criticizing an actress that dominates a show. But if it’s not allowed here I can tone it down. I like being able to discuss the soap since almost nobody in my personal life watches anymore. 
Something I find extra irritating are the constant scenes in a hotel lobby that doesn’t look the least bit luxurious. I know that’s no fault of the actors. Watching the classics last year shows how everything from cast to sets were downsized. In the old days it seemed like the entire cast would go to a wedding. Abby and Chance had a living room wedding (at least we got Nina back) and the joke of a honeymoon room. Then they disappeared him yet pushed forward with a baby story. I know the tiny budgets are just how it is now. My feeling is why waste what dollars they do have on an obnoxious character like Phyllis?

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