Y&R December 2020 Discussion Thread

[Taoboi]

Well 2020 has taught people anything it is that they are tired of crumbs.

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But seriously...I came back to see Nina and Jill and I was intrigued by Devon/Elena/Nate and always like to see what Sharon is up to...but that all seems to be ending quickly from where I am viewing so there is not much to see at the moment. 

[Faulkner]

Jason Thompson’s quarantine body is decent.

 

That’s all I got.

[soapfan770]

Jack and Sally? Really?

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 and what’s with the rumor that I keep seeing that says:

 

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Edited December 24, 2020 by soapfan770

[DramatistDreamer]

 

Well, you know, I've been accused of having a negative attitude where today's soaps are concerned, so I was trying to find something positive to say, . If truth be told, I got through about one and a half episodes and didn't return to watch the rest. As nice as it was to see Nina and Jill, the writing is just not compelling enough to lure me back to watching on anything close to even resembling regular viewing.

Edited December 24, 2020 by DramatistDreamer

[lucaslesann23]

I like the show alot 





But my fav  is on the most so maybe a slight bias their lol

[Taoboi]

I have always found your comments insightful and fair. And there are definitely other people who are much more negative...or just trolling.  

 

This is the most I've watched in a while myself. I stopped I think mid-Mal Young's run, was drawn back in for SSM who I acutally liked (and felt all she needed as a good co-writer).

 

I am surprised to find anything of interest period post-Nina and Jill. So, like you, I would be surprised if I stick to regular viewing. That rumor above is intriguing to me and overdue if it is true...but given how the one other storyline that would keep me watching regularly appears to be either done or slowly paced...I might do the same. 

 

Right now, GH is more my pace right now. 

[LondonScribe]

I’ve highlighted the bits that I co-sign the most. 
 

I thought getting rid of Sally Sussman Morina and Kay Alden (as quickly as they did) was a mistake at the time and I believe the following 3-4 years have bore that out. I do agree that if Kay Alden was not going to Co-Head Write then one was needed.

 

General Hospital and Days Of Our Lives are currently more appealing to me, but I understand that it’s not permanent, plus both shows have dull characters. The difference is that neither show is overrun with them or hollowed out veterans. 
 

However, I appreciate the shows for what they are, their differences, the genres they lean into and am not one of the growing number of people online wishing that Dan O’Connor and/or Chris Van Etten would move over to The Young and The Restless. And no to Ron Carlivati.
 

Just to be clear, my comments on Y&R come from a place of love and concern, as this is the show that opened my eyes to American soaps as a young boy in London looking for good stories on TV that didn’t look like Eastenders.

 

I want it to succeed, I want to be able to watch it religiously, recognise the characters, follow their journeys and not get bored. This year has taught me to stop accepting mediocrity, and I shed a lot of fat from my TV viewing as well as my own writing projects. But Y&R is the one belly roll I can’t shed and I really don’t want to. 
 

So, when compelled, or concerned I’ll speak up.

 

In the spirit of acknowledging things, I got it wrong about Josh Griffith, and he is wholly unsuited to this gig this time around. I guess the issue then becomes, who is out there or within the team that can galvanise the canvas of characters?

Edited December 26, 2020 by LondonScribe

[RavenWhitney]

When network or sponsor honchos wanted to kill a soap, they just hire and fire EPs every six months. With Y&R I think the honchos found the one EP/HW who can kill the show over its final multi year contract term.  The Xmas Eve episode (after 2 years of Griffith's nonstories) was completely devoid of anything resembling entertainment.  There's no there there!  You know things are beyond the point of no return when not even the vets (Natalie Slater/Esser and McDonald) can pull together a scintilla of warmth. Trotting out Xmas scenes with Dina from two years or more years ago was particularly depressing.  It's mind boggling that Sony/Corday which owns both Days and Y&R can produce one show that been lobotomized thrice over and the other that never comes down off steroids and LSD. 

[DramatistDreamer]

 

Thank you for saying that.

Unless someone comes at me, my comments have never been about being mean-spirited, just blunt.

I admit, I have never been the most faithful viewer, I've taken "breaks", either due to business or academic pursuits or heavy calendar of events but I grew up loving many of these daytime dramas and had hoped for them, but the business and creative malfeasance is pretty hard to ignore, especially now that I have more knowledge of how "the sausage is made".

This message board differs markedly from others because most people on this board are not afraid to have honest discussions about the good, the bad and the ugly concerning this genre. We discuss what we like and what we don't like and why. On other boards, you're not really allowed to do that. We use humor and we drag but even then there is a point behind it.

I get that people might be sensitive about these soaps, as they see them hanging on by a slim thread but as I see it, giving bad storytelling a pass, even in the midst of ratings drops won't spare these shows anyway, it might do the opposite.

[Taoboi]

Yeah, this has definitely been the year for me to drop shows. So I find it funny that due to my busy December work schedule most of the time I'm home if I am off. And that as a result...I've fallen more into soaps again. Good popcorn food if you will.

 

As for Y&R, other than the ABC Soaps, it was my mother's soap growing up. I was so fascinated (before I met the diva Dr. Dorian Lord) with the women. Nikki. Ashley Abbot as played by Eileen Davidson mostly. And of course for me Heather Tom's Victoria Newman. Drucilla. They were all fascinating and at the same time forces of nature. We used to have a radio show here that did recaps and I still remember the dialogue from the 'I guess I am Mother's daughter' speech Victoria gave to Nikki when they were fighting over Cole if I remember correctly. So I understand having some kind of correction that is still there even if it is a fade one. 

 

I admit that when I heard JG was coming back, I was interested. One of the times I stopped viewing was when he left...when the Delia death story started...and I remember liking his run then. I LOVED Carmine/Lauren. I liked he was using the teens. I liked Hilary. I loved the Sharon/Adam/Chelsea triangle because MSG can sell crazy/edgy over heroine. But this time around...? From what little I've seen, he has been sloppy, rushing his good storylines while letting the bad storylines drag. It was like he started from where he left off back in 2013...when I stopped. Which would have been good BUT these characters had actually grown since 2013 so that made no sense to regress them with no rhyme or reason. 

 

I wish honestly they would let someone with a love for the genre and a love for this show in particular write at this point. Promote from within. GH is proving it can have some good results (though they need to keep pushing cuz those pets need to go) since Dan O' Connor from an interview I read was a fan of ABC soaps and it shows. 

 

You are welcome. I like any discussing of writing (and it surprises me how many people here have written or are writers in their own right here) so your comments and others are always welcome. It just frustrates me that given how creative we are and how well we know these characters or the history behind them how the current writers just cannot think of a way to see why it might not be a good idea to do Idea A or Plot B. I can be ugh.

 

God! Tell me about it! lol. I've been so busy with busy work schedule this year and stay at home orders that I am shocked that I've watched a lot of soaps this month. In a time of chaos, sometimes I guess I can use 'comfort food.'

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  And goodness knows Jill and Nina was fine comfort. 

 

 Yeah, bad storytelling should not get a pass. And should be properly dragged. If there has been any issue I've had here...which are minor ones which is why I like this board for its discussion...it's that when the soaps do have a good rhythm, we are not suppose to establish that. Uh...no. I give credit where credit is done. Same for the bad. Like for example...DAYS. I was a Ericole fan. So I was exited they got together before AZ was written out a few years back. And I was HAPPY for the week i know haha they were together. I was happy they were together timejump and they got married in July. YES, I tuned in. That was where I got too busy to keep viewing ironically. but I heard GV got written out and it was a lame end so I will feel some kinda way when I get around to watching. After decades, they were finally an actual couple, a couple where an issue like a secret made them a stronger couple as they dealt with it rather than the usual 'they break up because of a secret' plot, and he got written out how? I'm not even sure if they are still married and he's off canvas. Or even coming back being recast? But...well...ugh. Bad storytelling IMHO. 

[Chris B]

Looking at y’all’s comments, I think had they paired Mal with Sally/Kay it could’ve worked. Sally’s hiring was bizarre. They interviewed her out of the blue and immediately hired her without giving her a chance to watch the show (which she hadn’t seen in 10 years) or come up with stories. She literally had to start work and figure it out. You can only do that if the person is already on staff. All things considered they did well and progressively got better as stories were implemented. They fixed all the characters and issues the show had before they had arrived. I loved that they had no interest in Adam, a character that was burnt out beyond belief and I loved the exits for Chelsea, Chloe and Kevin who had all run their course. 
 

Had they paired them with Mal I think they would’ve complimented each other. Even without a co-HW it was just bizarre not to give them more time considering literally every other writer has been given more time. Now we have a case where you have JG who from the time he has returned seems to be in auto pilot. There is no one story you can point to that is memorable. He literally slipped back into what he was writing before and hasn’t stopped. The fact that even pre-Covid ratings were dropping and they do nothing is insane. Now I get that ratings are higher than we know because of streaming, but it still feels like they just don’t care. 
 

JG’s contract is up at the beginning of the year so if he’s leaving we should know before January is up. If not I’ll be very disappointed. The show can’t survive another year like this. I also think it’s time for Brad Bell to step down at B&B. He has no passion and I just don’t understand why he doesn’t step down. 

[Taoboi]

But remember...Mal was having a bit of a power struggle with SSM&Kay, wasn't he? So long term that might not have worked out. Though I do feel that they worked well together from the LA episodes and up to SSM and Kay left. Juilet was such a good find and terrible waste because the potential (and that voice) was there. 

 

But I agree that it is bizarre that power struggle aside, they were not given enough time especially since things were in motion from what I remember. 

 

Hopefully, if JG is leaving next year, they take a chance and get someone who truly likes the show and wants to do something with it.

[Soap-princess]

My assessment of Josh is he basically just re-upped all the stories and characters he was writing for during his prior stint before he was fired in 2013. He has zero self awareness about what’s good tv. It’s all about his vision, and he’s unable to change gears because he feels he knows what best despite the viewers saying otherwise. He brought back Adam, Kevin, Chloe, and Chelsea after they were successfully phased out by the prior regime.  It’s an ego thing it seems. 
 

I personally have zero faith things will get marginally better under Josh or any other head writer.  At this point even the cast appears burned out and the acting has not been up to par like prior years.

[LondonScribe]

I agree that his approach to this Head Writing tenure has been absolutely mind-boggling. Sharon might as well have stepped out of the shower in his first credited episode.

 

But I wouldn’t be surprised if Josh Griffith is kept on in the name of ‘stability’ during these precarious world times. A ‘steady’ hand to keep the show ticking over.

 

Otherwise, look for Amanda Beall (who Griffith shifted to be his Associate Head Writer last year, at least that is what I think she is, and I speculate would be his preferred successor) or Susan Dansby (who I think I read the senior executives placed as Story Consultant) to be made Head Writer.

 

Mal Young was always a curious choice for Head Writer and Executive Producer because he grew up and developed in British soap operas and dramas, and for the record, has a very mixed record. I won’t go over his history again but I do remember ostensibly warning everyone on here about him. He immediately came on and changed the fabric and storytelling construct of the show, making each episode a separate day and trying to eliminate the musical score in its entirety (something he confirmed after he had left), pretty much making it like a U.K. soap.

 

By the way, was it not Mal Young who wrote out Chelsea, Kevin and Chloe as well as quietly discarding Paul as well as the pretty unique and charming Ravi, and setting the wheels in motion to axe Neil? Making JT an abuser and having him push Victor down the stairs, introducing the Rosales family (though there were other forces at play there also) and having the least interesting of them overrun the show. 
 

The L.A episodes aside, I’m not sure how well he would have worked with SSM and Alden as their sensibilities were different and possibly at odds with each other. 
 

Plus we all know the ‘bible’ power play Young pulled, which led to their exits.

 

Considering that SSM took the reins with no prep, she could have done a much worse job. And at the risk of repeating myself, I haven’t enjoyed much since hers and Alden’s names disappeared off the credits.

 

British producers and writers aren’t exactly covering themselves in glory right now (and I warn people to keep a close eye on this proposed ‘Pine Valley’ prime time reboot with Leo Richardson as the Head Writer) so I won’t even joke about the fact that Hollyoaks Executive Producer Bryan Kirkwood is days away from becoming available

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Edited December 28, 2020 by LondonScribe

[Paul Raven]

I have to say I expected more from Sally/Kay. They wasted the return of Scott and Dina and most of the other stories were meh but at least they didn't trash the characters.

Mal however did more damage.

Josh bringing back Adam was bad enough but then turning back the clock to his earlier incarnation has been horrible, 

Having Kevin and Chloe back and giving them nothing to do adds insult to injury.

Really its time for a change (and hopefully some improvements)