Is My Friend In A Cult? Your Thoughts & Advice...

[Gray Bunny]

It sounds dramatic, but it’s such a cultish atmosphere I think my friend has fallen into, I’d like to know other people’s thoughts, opinions, and advice. I’ll refrain from using anyone’s real names, but here goes…

 

Hubby & I met our friend Diana through a mutual friend a couple years ago and we hit it off. We’ve hung out by ourselves many times and even went on a trip out of the country together.  Years ago, she was in an abusive relationship that lasted for years. She was afraid of him, intimidated by him, her life revolved around him, etc.  Thankfully, that is all behind her now and the woman we see today is confident, secure, and strong. She prides herself on her independence and her personal achievements in life (her career, buying her own home, etc.). She dates around, but wasn’t interested in settling down just yet, nor settling for just anyone.

 

However, a little over a year ago, she met a guy we’ll call Carlo. He’s allegedly very wealthy. Comes from a wealthy family where we can see his parents and brother are well off. He’s very eccentric, in that he’s one of those free spirits that is constantly traveling the country, going to various EDM events and does things like Burning Man and all those sorts of things with his group of friends. Of course, recreational drugs are frequently used. He can be gone weeks at a time, especially when traveling in his RV.

 

Diana and Carlo start dating but very casually initially. He does his thing, she does hers, and they give themselves no title. Eventually, they start getting closer and establish they are “exclusive” or boyfriend/girlfriend or whatever official label they give themselves.

 

Carlo has a circle of friends he’s very close to. Men and women, but we mostly see him having group hangouts with the women, almost all of them tall, pretty, thin blondes. Everyone seems to be in their 30’s.

 

Early on in the relationship, Diana tells us that Carlo told her that he used to be married, but the wife eventually divorced him because he wanted to be more free and she couldn’t put up with his free spirit lifestyle. He’s a financial planner (allegedly), but has money and the freedom to do whatever, whenever. Whether it be skydiving, gliding, boating, whatever. He’s all over the place.  

 

Last fall was when we started seeing a slow shift in Diana. She started getting flaky, making plans with us that were established for weeks, and then suddenly the weekend of, she said she couldn’t make it because Carlo is taking her to Florida or something like that (and yes, they really did go; it wasn’t a lie). When we all planned to spend Halloween together in our group costumes and head downtown, on the night of, she was adamant that we had to attend a certain club because a couple friends of Carlo’s had a VIP lounge, and we have go to and we have to buy a $200 bottle of vodka as a thank-you for letting us join. [Side note: When we got there, the place was DEAD: D-E-A-D. Our Halloween costumes were amazing with a professional makeup artist doing us up, and we got to show it off to nobody in a dark club. Even though it was dead, she still insisted we buy the $200 bottle (to impress the couple? To keep up with the Joneses?) even though plenty of alcohol was still available. In the end, we bought it, and it was never opened. Pointless purchase. But I digress…  ]

 

A couple weeks later, we were supposed to attend a concert together, and Carlo whisked her away somewhere the weekend of instead.

 

During this time and going forward, we would casually talk about other mutual friends, and she would say she hasn’t spoken to so-and-so for awhile, nor seen them in person for quite some time.

 

By contrast, she was spending a lot of time with Carlo’s group of friends. She was also spending time here and there with a wealthy couple Carlo is friends with, and Hubby and I also know, but not really well. They’re a prominent couple here in this area (we’ll call them Brandon and Brenda). They are in the local public spotlight, but behind closed doors they’re both bisexual and both have same-sex side pieces they regularly hook up with. We should know; one of our younger friends was the husband’s play-thing for a few months. And the wife took a liking to Diana, though Diana politely declined any advances.

 

Fast forward to this past winter. Carlo is away for over 2 months, traveling the country in his RV doing God-knows-what. At this point, Diana practically lives at his place. She still has her house, but she’s only there 1, maybe 2 nights a week. She also has a cat. Diana loves her darling kitty. However, Carlo isn’t a fan of cats, apparently. And eventually, Diana tells us of an incident where her cat freaks out and goes bat [!@#$%^&*] crazy all over the house, scratching her and scratching up things, and Diana is “scared” and decides to give the cat up. Just like that. Kitty gone. And she acted as though she had no attachment to the poor critter when she did it.

 

During this stretch of time when Carlo was away, Diana invited me, my husband, and our good friend over to Carlo’s place to spend the evening there and hang out. When we get there, a guy is there. A friend of Carlo who is now a good friend to Diana. Carlo’s house is always lit in a dark pink/light purple hue. Very trippy. And EDM music is always playing in the background. We eat, drink, color a giant paint-by-numbers thing that adorns one of his entire walls (weird, but okay, let’s color like we’re 3^rd graders).

 

Diana really wants to show off Carlo’s large steam shower he had installed in the basement. So we all go down there and she says we can all strip down and go in. Um okay, I guess. It’s steamy and we really can’t see each other’s naughty bits when it’s fogged up. She strips down nekkid with no hesitation, as did her guy friend [Side note: she was shy about nudity the previous summer when we were vacationing]. We all follow suit. We’re on one side of the shower, and Diana and the guy friend is on the other. It’s foggy, but my hubby can see something: A stroking movement. Diana is definitely stroking the guy’s dick. And at one point when the guy gets up to adjust the steam or whatnot, my hubby can see the dude’s got a full erection.

 

Later, when the guy is out of the room, Diana admits that Carlo and she have this understanding that people have needs, and they’re free about things. And the guy friend is going through a divorce and is lonely. Carlo is “allowing her” to be close to him to help fulfill his needs.

 

Soon after, I leave to go home and take care of the dogs (I didn’t want to spend the night anyhow). And my hubby later recounts to me that when it was time to go to bed, Diana and the dude stripped nekkid and were in Carlo’s bed together and invited my hubby and our friend to join them. Just to sleep. Together. Butt ass nekkid. Hubby and our friend declined and slept on the sofa. The next morning, hubby could sense that Diana felt a little embarrassed but didn’t address the elephant in the room.

 

Now we come to pandemic time. Diana is fortunate to be able to work from home... Carlos’ home, that is. [Diana has expressed an interest in getting rid of her house altogether and moving in with Carlo]. Carlo is back home too. And apparently, at least a half dozen of his friends are also quarantining in his home. Let me tell you about his home…  he owns a large lot of land, though the house itself is small. Only 2 bedrooms, 1 bath, and a basement that seemingly will always be under construction, other than the steamroom. The property has vineyards for making wine (allegedly). He owns alpacas just for the fun of it. He also has chickens, and bees for making honey.

 

Side note: One time pre-COVID when we were hosting a party, Diana came over with some of Carlo’s honey. She raved about it and told everyone, “I brought honey. Carlo’s honey. It came from Carlo’s bees. Carlo’s bees,” like a broken record to everyone who could hear her. And over half the people at our party didn’t even know who Carlo was. But I digress…

 

Across from Carlo’s property is a restaurant. Carlo tells us that he owns the restaurant, or at least owns most of it, and the family who works there run it for him. We later find out on our own that Carlo doesn’t own it at all. The family who runs it in facts owns it. To this day, Diana still believes Carlo owns it.

 

Also, about that vineyard. Diana tells us he said he makes the wine and then “gives it” (yep, GIVES it) to one of the nearby wineries. Said winery is actually very well known around this area and is sold in grocery stores across this state. But according to Diana, Carlo gives away his wine to the well-known winery for them to sell. Sounds like a great way to make literally ZERO money, right?

 

So, during quarantine time, Diana is there at Carlo’s place, along with some 8 or so other people. Some are couples, some are single. All 30-something, all into the EDM scene, all into the recreational drug use. In fact, at this point, with Diana having attended multiple EDM concerts with Carlo and Carlo’s friends, Diana is now a champion of recreational drugs, saying it’s healthier and safer than alcohol usage and there’s never any hangover. She has frequently used stuff with them.

 

Around this time, hubby, myself, and our friend are discussing this amongst each other. Talking about Diana, that is, and what has happened over these last few months. Also around this time, I just happened to have rewatched Season 3 of Melrose Place and it dawns on me – this is just like Sydney when she unwittingly joined a cult.

 

Let me tell you about another pre-COVID event that Diana told us about. Remember Brandon and Brenda, the wealthy bisexual socialites? At some point this past winter, both of them expressed an interest in Diana. Brandon, Brenda, and Carlo know each other and have for years. So… apparently, an actual “contract” was written up where Diana indeed had sex with them both. There were conditions. Diana pretty much laid there while Brandon and Brenda “explored” her body.  

 

Obviously, this pandemic era is unlike any other time, and people are isolating themselves. I get it. However, I see Diana, Carlo, and the group of friends together all the time posting stuff online. Always group “family” hangouts and dinners and laying on blankets together around his property, all cozied up with one another. Even now with restrictions lifted, they’re just keeping to each other, whether they’re at Carlo’s Compound (as I refer to it) or doing weekend trips in Michigan and Wisconsin.

 

In April, when we tried to do a Zoom Party Night of the four of us friends, Diana agreed to it; then the evening of, she could only do it for a half hour, and we could see Carlo and the gang of friends in the background. It seemed like she was trying to get some privacy, but Carlo kept popping up in the room checking on her, we could tell.

 

She was supposed to come to our house and hang out with us early July when our friend was in town, so we could all have our little reunion, and then the evening of, she has excuses about limited time where she can only drop by for an hour or so. And then as we’re getting closer to the time, she says Carlo will be coming, along with one of those random girl friends [it’s the one from Halloween who hosted the VIP lounge, “you know her!”]. So the reunion of the 4 of us has to include 2 special guest stars. Hubby and I can be hospitable but the whole thing felt weird, so we decided to cancel on her, citing we were already too drunk from being at the pool all day and we were about to crash.

 

Fast-forward a few more weeks and we come to today.

 

Back in early July when she expressed she misses us and wants to hang out, she says she thinks she’ll be able to see us in late August. Late August? What concrete plans are keeping you busy for 2 solid months? Nothing.  Now, Carlo is going on some trip at the end of August/early September. So that must’ve been her “spare time” she had in mind for us. However, this past Wednesday she reaches out to Hubby to ask what we’re doing this Friday. “Carlo and I really want to see you.” And apparently it HAS to be Friday. “What about breakfast?” We work. “What if we pick some food up and we just see you a couple hours?”  Now granted, this is last-minute planning and we actually already have plans in the works, but when Hubby offers other suggestions, she can’t do it.

 

Carlo is actually gone starting next week, and Diana doesn’t join him on the trip until the following week. She’d be FREE next weekend. Yet, when hubby points that out, she’s silent on the suggestion to make plans for next weekend alone.

 

Before I wrap this story up, there’s clues I’ve given you about what Carlo must really do behind the scenes. We’re convinced he’s involved in drug dealing. He is a “financial advisor” (a cliché code term, according to some in the know). He lives an eccentric lifestyle that was originally funded from family money. He has a vineyard… so where’s the profit on that? And alpacas for what… to say he makes money from their wool? And the honey bees…? Interestingly, Carlo told Diana he makes more money than Brandon and Brenda, but they own Mercedes and Rolls Royce and other vehicles, while he drives around in one car – a Tesla that has a banged up side (“My mother drove it once and banged it up”) that still has yet to be fixed…. And the restaurant he “owns” but he doesn’t own at all. PLUS… a simple google search will tell you he was arrested for 2 counts of possession in 2018 on a Florida cruise ship at an EDM festival.  

 

I know this write-up only tells part of the story, as there’s been a lot more red flags here, but my guess is that at this point, she is not “allowed” to see friends outside of Carlo’s Circle of Friends unless he is in attendance with her. It is like she has to be chaperoned by him.

 

As for the group, I say they’re all swingers and there’s a lot of open love amongst the group. Lots of group sex and drugs.

 

I’m sure I’ve left out other key details and warning signs, but what are your thoughts? Personal experiences? Advise?  Is Diana a lost cause until she sees the light on her own terms? Or should we say something? I’m guessing if we say anything, we’ll get shut down, branded as bad people by Carlo, and never hear from her again.

 

As it is, we discovered he likes to “test” people’s loyalty as friends, and we’re convinced he was the reason why Diana stopped being friends with a mutual friend of ours last year. Like I said, lots of warning signs here and there.

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Gray Bunny

[AbcNbc247]

I did a research paper on cult psychology in college.

 

First off, take care of yourself and your husband first. If this guy is what you think he is, don't give him any reason to be upset at you two. If you don't mind me asking, was your friend unhappy or unsatisfied with the way her life was going when she met this guy?  Because those are the type of people that cult leaders prey on.

 

How did you feel when you met him? Did he talk to you a lot? Did you feel like he was trying to brainwash you with his way of thinking?

[Gray Bunny]

 

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 and yes, the idea of ticking "Carlo" off is another reason for my trepidation with confronting her about it. He presents himself as all fun and happy times, but there's a dark side to him.  I think Diana was happier than she had been years prior. She would make multiple mentions of her domestic violence past, many times bringing up DV almost in a proud sense that she overcame something horrible. However, I think at the heart of it, she is still vulnerable to someone overpowering her and her acquiescing and doing what she has to to please him and keep the peace. 

 

Forgot to mention earlier, the morning after Diana and her friend were sleeping together nekkid and my hubby and friend had slept on the sofa instead, Diana was showing off the alpacas and grounds to hubby and friend, and at one point she actually said "I think I'd kill myself if Carlo ever left me." Then paused, realized what she said, and joked it off and was like "I mean, look at all this!" in reference to the alpacas and other farm animals (not a great selling point, IMO. Who TF cares about owning alpacas??) 

 

Honestly, I think Carlo wanted/wants to get to know hubby and me better to see if we can be "groomed" into that circle of friends, or something close to being a part of it all. 

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Gray Bunny

[AbcNbc247]

Clearly, you're intelligent enough and strong enough to realize it's all b.s.

 

On talking to her about him/his lifestyle, is she the type of person who will sit down and listen you, or is she the type who will jump down your throat and refuse to hear anything you say the moment you start speaking? If she's the latter, I don't think there's anything you can do. Like alcoholism or drug addiction, you have to let them hit bottom.

Edited August 21, 2020 by AbcNbc247

[OzFrog]

How old is Diana if you don’t mind my asking? I know first hand how it can feel to be manipulated by other people in the way Diana seems to have been in this case, and I’m very sorry about the predicament she’s found herself in (if she even realises she is in a predicament), as well as how you and your hubby have become involved.

 

Could it be that maybe you both need to set up some boundaries at this point regarding her behaviour towards you? If she is supposedly a mature independent woman, then any decisions she makes will ultimately need to made on her own. It’s hard though when there’s brainwashing involved.

 

Have you also done any more research or investigation into Carlo himself? I know you mentioned a couple of 2018 arrests, but curious if anything more has surfaced.

 

I really hope that something happens sooner rather than later to push this along. I was reading it and thinking “this is miles more intriguing than anything the 4 soaps could put together combined”.

[Gray Bunny]

 

I think she would remain mostly silent while we spoke before responding. However, I've never seen her in a position to be completely enraged, or defensive. She can be very deep about some aspects, and very surface/shallow on other aspects, so I'm not sure of her reaction. 

 

 

Early 30's. 

 

I think some sort of discussion, whether it be directly or indirectly about the real situation is going to happen very soon. If not this weekend, then next weekend. It's one of those things where we don't want to poke the bear, but we can't keep sidestepping the issue here. It's going to be awkward. 

 

I haven't dug too far into Carlo, but one of our girlfriends is like the queen of gossip in this town. We got her starting to investigate... LOL 

 

Tune in next time!

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[AbcNbc247]

Yeah, guys like this usually have long criminal records/reputations so you should keep investigating before you confront her. 

 

Just be careful 

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Edited August 21, 2020 by AbcNbc247

[Soapsuds]

@Gray Bunny  just do your best Rupaul  imitation to your friend

 

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[Vee]

Cute how you think this is a GIF topic to joke about.

[Soapsuds]

Gawd...give it a rest. You are a pain. You think only your zh!t is right.

 

Bunny and I are friends. 

@Gray Bunny tell her your are concerned about her situation. If she needs to talk about it..you are there for her. And leave it at that.

[Gray Bunny]

UPDATE: Well, hubby was able to get us out of committing to plans with Diana and Carlo this past Friday. On Saturday, I saw postings from Diana and Brenda, with Diana attending Brenda's at-home birthday bash with her closest girlfriends  [I'm sure no new sex contracts were signed on that night, lol].  I still have yet to see Diana ever hang out with anyone outside of Carlo's world of friends. 

 

She never gave my hubby an answer or response regarding making plans for this weekend, when she's free (but Carlo is out of town). I think I might just reach out separately and act naive and ask what she's up to this weekend. "I heard you might be free?" [no pun intended]. 

[Fevuh]

I was just reading through this - so I'm way late.  What I would say is as difficult as it might be, distance yourself from your friend.  Just tell her that she can talk to you about anything and that you miss her, but distance yourself from her.  She's made her choice, clearly.  It's hard to hear and hard to understand, but there are women who actually don't realize that they want to be controlled and abused.  If she was in an abusive relationship before, she's likely to repeat the behavior and choose it again and although this might not be physical abuse, she's being controlled and subliminally she wants it.  And she's choosing it.  

 

The guy is clearly a drug dealer and surrounds himself with people he can supply and the mysterious trips make no sense for a financial planner.  As far as the vineyard goes - how is he making the wine?  Where are his facilities on the property or does he just claim to provide grapes to actual vineyards?  Does he have a vintner (these are the people who actually make the wine).  

 

As far as Electronic Dance Music - I was done with that at early 30's.  Don't know how old he is but that's a big clue as to the culture.  Not necessarily a cult, but definitely swinger/rec drug crowd.  I would say there isn't anything you can do other than to distance yourself for your own safety and your family's safety.  Carlo will know everything that you talk to Diana about because she will tell him.  She's already choosing other people over you and your husband any time she can, and she's setting boundaries around your friendship by only making herself available when convenient for her or her man.  Don't be passive aggressive, but find yourself "busy" when she suggests times and places and parties to meet.  Tell her you really don't have a lot in common with many of her new set of friends, but you're glad she's happy.  And she can talk to you about anything.  Don't say you're worried about her or you're concerned, etc. because it will abso get back to Carlo.  He's likely already wary of you.  Distance and wish her the best.  

 

I don't think a cult but I think he's definitely a drug dealing ring leader of a group he created.  I don't know honestly if there's a difference.  Some kind of religion or dogma involved (usually).  Doesn't sound like religion or dogma is involved but the guy (Carlo) is likely a narcissist who is an attention grabber and enjoys being the center of attention and controlling people.  Maybe that does make it a cult, I don't know.  But when you say he claims to own a restaurant that he never manages or goes to - and you can talk to the people there and find out that a family owns it and he doesn't have anything to do with it - that's cray cray.  Easy enough to ask around for Diana.  It seems like she wants to believe anything and everything he says - another indication of a circle of abuse, making excuses, or giving reasons for his actions.  She's that person that subliminally doesn't know she wants to be controlled and abused and will choose that over her friends. 

[Gray Bunny]

 

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 You've hit the nail on the head by all accounts. 

 

At this point, we have distanced ourselves from her. She's reached out to us a couple times to check in or just casually comment on social media posts, but she's totally off in her own world of Carlo and his circle of friends. 

 

Some updates though... Diana and my hubby spoke on the phone a few days ago and I guess we're going to do a Zoom wine meeting this weekend to catch up. We'll see if this actually happens, and if she's allowed to spend more than 30 minutes talking with us, and we'll see if we can tell if she's being monitored or not (I'm sure Carlo will always be within earshot). 

 

Also, one time, I saw her walking with a guy (she lives in our neighborhood but rarely is at her own place anymore). The guy she was with was super fit, jacked, shirtless, and I'm like "whoa who's that and why is she with him and why does she look so busted next to this Adonis?" Turns out, that's one of Carlo's friends (of course), but she referred to him as a "family friend." To which my hubby asked, "Oh, a friend of yours and your mom's?"  No, a friend of Carlos and his circle of friends. And then Diana finally admits (off-handedly) that she and Carlo are in an open relationship and that she wants to sleep with the jacked muscle dude (can't say I blame her, but, still. Weird admission to make). 

 

A mutual friend who does makeup professionally told us she did Diana's makeup a couple weeks ago and that Diana was definitely different than from what she remembered a year ago, and that everything she talked about was Carlos, Carlos, Carlos. 

 

But the real kicker was the latest twist from last week when our neighbor friends who own a camper mentioned to us that they just rented their camper out to Carlos. When they initially spoke with Carlos, he seemed really hyper, anxious and was brief about everything. Even though Carlos was cool with paying a good amount of money upfront, they felt something was off, so our neighbor friends did a little background check and of course saw the drug felony charges in Florida, but also saw that we were Facebook friends with him. So they tell us that when it came time to pick up their camper (Carlos had rented it for a week), they drove to Carlos' residence. When they drove up, Carlos' garage door comes up and they make eye contact with Carlos. Then, as they're getting out of their truck, they see about a dozen people just SCATTER into the woods including Carlos! They get out of their truck and Carlos has disappeared, all the other random people went off into the wooded areas (by the alpacas? in the newly built adult tree house? Who knows!) and so our neighbor friends can't do an official inspection checklist with Carlos as is customary to do. Not only were a couple things broken, but they found pill capsules in their camper. Shocker, right? 

 

Not only did Carlos rent their camper, but there were around 8 other campers on the property as well. So it was clearly some big party event on Carlos' compound that week. At the same time, Diana posted a couple photos on her Instagram of her in a very revealing outfit with people around her, where she said she and her friends did their own recreation of Burning Man, but that "out of respect for everyone involved, I won't say when these were taken or where this was, but we remained safe and healthy." Clearly, this was taken that week on his property. 

 

In her conversation with my hubby, Diana also mentioned that 5 of the people in the circle of friends have gotten COVID and that at this point, she "hopes she just gets it and be over it," even though she has asthma. Sounds like a deluded Trumpian way of thinking, even though the last time we saw her in March, she was serious about staying safe and being smart. 

 

When we see photos of her, there's a dead look in her eyes. Like Britney Spears at her worst where there was no affect; just cold dead eyes. 

 

Anyways, that's where things stand currently. We will in fact casually mention the camper story, as it'll show her this town isn't so big and you never know what people are gonna find out. 

[AbcNbc247]

Hey @Gray Bunny, how did this turn out? Are you and your husband still friends with her?

[Gray Bunny]

 

Sorry I missed this earlier

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  No, we haven't corresponded with her for the past couple months, aside from a "like" here 'n there on Instagram. She'll occasionally comment on my stuff. Meanwhile, she's actually on a never-ending vacation around the USA via his RV. They're always posting about doing something somewhere in the southern states: She, him, and his gaggle of friends, almost all of them women. When I see her postings, there's a lack of light in her eyes; seemingly soulless or just sleep deprived. Whatever fun lil' narcotics they're taking are keeping them skinny but are slowly wearing them out. 

 

One time, she reached out to our mutual girlfriend to catch up, and at one point, Diana sighed and admitted, "I'm tired..." but it didn't seem like just a casual mention of just being tired, you know? 

 

A few months ago around Christmastime, Carlo posted a long, long lengthy post about his "tribe" and how you make your own family and whatnot. I could post it here. I still have yet to read it.  

 

Also a couple months back, Carlo reached out to my hubby via social media as kind of a general catchup and was bragging about something random he just bought, but my hubby didn't respond. As my hubby is considered the Queen Bee/Regina George (haha) of the group, no doubt Diana and Carlo were discussing all of us and wanted to put feelers out by reaching out to my hubby since hubby had stopped responding to Diana. 

 

We'll see what happens as we get closer to the summertime and they're finally back home...