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ajsp35801

Y&R: RIP Kristoff St John

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It's interesting to see so many posters pay 'respect' to KSJ & Neil when for decades all they ever did was insult him, insist he be written off and/or replaced with any number of other Black actors/characters.

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36 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

If the future of the Winters family lies with Christel Khalil, then there really is no future for them...

 

And now I'm sad all over again.

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1 minute ago, DeeeDee said:

It's interesting to see so many posters pay 'respect' to KSJ & Neil when for decades all they ever did was insult him, insist he be written off and/or replaced with any number of other Black actors/characters.

I’ll cop to it. I felt like the character had been destroyed.

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I'm bracing myself to feel sad and disappointed when I watch later today.

 

@Khan Don't worry about it, those fools (or were they the same fool masquerading as different people??) were more irritating than stressor.  I knew they were looking for attention and engagement so they could dump all their MAGA anxieties out on me, so I simply stopped engaging them, knowing they'd catch a fade.

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The only thing that will keep TPTB interested in this family is if CBS were to work out some special deal with Shemar to make semi-regular appearances in addiction his prime time work on the network. Sadly, he’s the only black actor they’ll ever cater to.

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From a business standpoint it would be wise for the show to want to maintain or regain black viewership. Black viewers are huge demographic that networks do not tap into for the most part. Bill Bell seemed to understand this but no other producers and writers really seemed to understand this. Of course black viewers didn't just watch for the black characters because there are plenty of them who love many of the white characters, but it still was the representation of black characters as something else other than just background or supporting types that helped build a black audience. No other demographic is going to replace the black audience. Latino viewers have for years had a well developed set of programming and entertainment because of Spanish language networks. Sure, there is BET and a few other smaller entertainment outlets for black viewers but those are far less developed. All that said soaps have lost so many viewers across the board that it's probably a lost cause to even attempt to draw in more black viewers.

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37 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

And deep down, I think it may have ruffled some feathers higher-up that Miashel Morgan was getting a lot more attention than their ideal sanitized version of a black leading lady Christel Khalil . 

 

Honestly, I don't think they ever wanted Lily nor CK to have that power either. While Lane fans are rabid, lily nor CK  alone have ever had that pull or attention from fans the way Hilary and MiM. They played a different game with her with thesame goal.  They know fully well that character is not what it should be. They know that the casting is an issue. They know that black women are not as drawn to her as they otherwise might be if she were written differently.  They use Lane fans to keep her tied to Cane, which keeps the character from reaching her full potential onscreen and in popularity.  

 

Recall that when Lane took off, Cane was P3. The show quickly snatched the idea that Lily would bear Chancellor heirs by making him a con. Which is ironic since they made Devon Kay's grandson. But when they did so, I don't think they ever envisioned him having kids or a real romance that dictated it. 

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12 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

You should've ventured into the Cancelled Soaps section about two months ago, where I got attacked left, right and center by some troll(s) after trying to discuss this topic in the As The World Turns thread.

 

Change makes people act real ugly.

6 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

The only thing that will keep TPTB interested in this family is if CBS were to work out some special deal with Shemar to make semi-regular appearances in addiction his prime time work on the network. Sadly, he’s the only black actor they’ll ever cater to.

 

Shemar has NO desire to return on a regular (or even semi-regular) basis.

 

He'll make occasional guest appearances but he has LONG felt above Daytime.

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7 minutes ago, DeeeDee said:

 

Change makes people act real ugly.

 

Change and even the discussion of the need for change.  Whew, did it ever get ugly...that was definitely in effect during that time period!  They couldn't attack my arguments, so they attacked me.  Oh well,  I definitely know who is on permanent ignore (even if the feature no longer works, lol).

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25 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

I think you may be onto something about not wanting another black actress to even begin to think she can wield any influence, likely as a result of what happened with VR. Y&R would rather lose ratings share than risk another go-round with an assertive actress, especially an assertive black actress.

 

Marshall Travers is the only other daytime character that I can think of who matches Hilary.  Marshall, much like Hilary, was seen as a charismatic character who was also known to be duplicitous.  Lamman Rucker and daytime veteran Tamara Tunie had a red-hot chemistry that showed Jessica Griffin's character in a totally different light (sexy and bold).  They gave a boost to the show and became intensely popular to a mostly fading As The World Turns

So of course, TIIC had to make Marshall a rapist.  In fact, they wrote him as raping Jessica and Jessica, a lawyer (both were lawyers) had Marshall charged, arrested and a trial ensued where things got ugly.  Later, Marshall was killed off by perennial villain James Stenbeck, after James had temporarily made Marshall his lackey.  The only "saving grace" for Marshall was that he saved his formerly believed dead daughter Zara on the way out.

IMO that was the worst waste of a charismatic character played by a gorgeous talented actor that I've ever seen.  I'm still angry about it.  Jessica never got another good storyline and she was on very sporadically until she left sometime around '08-09.

 

 

Nuh-uh hon, Mishael is half-Indian so that hair is real, LOL.

 

 

There was always the excuse of "well, it probably won't go over well with housewives in the midwest" thrown around.  It's the same mentality that movie studios used not to promote movies with primarily black and/or minority casts until SHOCKER Black Panther defied all the naysayers!

 

T.V. used to be seen as blazing trails and over the past 20 years it has been seen as leading Hollywood on the path to progressive programming but that is primetime.  Daytime appears to be the last holdout.

CBS/CBS Daytime will learn the hard way as hopefully, black viewers exercise their options and go elsewhere.  Y&R/B&B doesn't deserve loyalty from viewers who have been hard done in the last 15+ years.

 

 

My habits have been sporadic since 2008/2009, but I tuned out in earnest when it became clear that they were dumping Morgan. Now that I think back, I probably should've dumped Y&R much earlier but I now realize that it was likely my loyalty to some of the actors that kept me coming back.  The way that daytime television is structured, viewer loyalty is rarely rewarded these days-- not for the last 20 years, it seems.

 

 

I have some feelings about that particular fanbase but I will save that for another time, another thread because I don't want to further hijack this one by going too far OT but I think that one odd off-shoot of the advocacy of some of these fanbases is that they saw other actors (not characters, mind you but actors) as the enemy.  Unfortunately, KSJ also bore the brunt of this in so many ways because his character had been written so horribly over the past several years.  I often wonder now what they think seeing that Hilary's removal from the canvas did not result in their character getting more screentime or better writing.  Go figure.

 

Thurgood Marshall Travers brought me back to ATWT after a 4 year hiatus. Not just me, but I asked one of my friends to start watching. We were hooked! We still quote him in conversation to this day.  "Note to self" 

 

 I knew where it was headed once he raped Jessica, his only option for a love interest really. His ending was despicable. Didn't Bonnie push him out of a window in some grand stand type confrontation? 

 

However, I don't put him in the same category as Hilary simply because of the short time he was on the show. They did this year after year with Hilary pretending to care and value her.  Him, they just went ahead and got rid of. It's not like his character wasn't working. I always wondered why? 

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10 minutes ago, ajsp35801 said:

While Lane fans are rabid, lily nor CK  alone have ever had that pull or attention from fans the way Hilary and MiM.

 

The brief periods when Lily dated Billy and reunited with Daniel were the ONLY time audience support, writing and acting all aligned for Lane-free CK.

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25 minutes ago, DeeeDee said:

It's interesting to see so many posters pay 'respect' to KSJ & Neil when for decades all they ever did was insult him, insist he be written off and/or replaced with any number of other Black actors/characters.

 

😏

5 minutes ago, DeeeDee said:

 

The brief periods when Lily dated Billy and reunited with Daniel were the ONLY time audience support, writing and acting all aligned for Lane-free CK.

 

Yes, interest in Lily was always highest when lily had potential to be tied to other core families or those connected to core. When they made Cane a con, Lane were dead in the water. And lily a non-entity tied to him in these side stories that always centered on him. 

Edited by ajsp35801

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29 minutes ago, Faulkner said:

I’ll cop to it. I felt like the character had been destroyed.

 

Same here.  I cop to seeing Neil as boring and KSJ as not much of an actor.  (Perhaps, if I were to be completely honest with myself, I still see both that way.)  However, that was before I saw not just Neil/KSJ but the entire AA cast contingent on Y&R being shoved aside for those precious Rosaleses.  If you gotta write off Neil/KSJ and whoever else because you think you've hit a wall with them, fine.  But don't do it because you think you can swap out a bunch of Black characters and actors with a bunch of Hispanic (or Hispanic-looking) ones, chase after one demographic and to hell with the one who helped put you on top, and think no one will notice or care.

 

The more I examined Neil and KSJ, the more I realized how valuable both were to the show and to their fans.  Like I've said before, Neil Winters was different even among AA male characters on soaps, because even though he was educated and front-burner like some others, he was allowed to "play" in an arena of soaps (namely, the business/conglomerate sectors) that has been off-limits to most others like him.  That's huge -- and now that he's gone, that's likely over.

Edited by Khan

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7 minutes ago, ajsp35801 said:

 When they made Cane a con, Lane were dead in the water. 

 

Not really. Y&R just made Cane the Barber/Winters patriarch.

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37 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

@Khan Don't worry about it, those fools (or were they the same fool masquerading as different people??) were more irritating than stressor.  I knew they were looking for attention and engagement so they could dump all their MAGA anxieties out on me, so I simply stopped engaging them, knowing they'd catch a fade.

 

Thanks, DD!  :)

Edited by Khan

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