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ajsp35801

Y&R: RIP Kristoff St John

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Tank saying that KSJ recently pitched him goes right in line with VR saying that KSJ pitched story after story that was denied. Had to point that out because I know some think she's a loon out of touch with reality. 

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16 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

I definitely got the sense that someone/some persons did not want Devon/Hilary to become "THE" couple, so when Mishael Morgan asked for a raise after five years of solid work, her request was rejected.  They were just fine with letting one of the best couplings to come along in years because they didn't want them to be "The Face" of Y&R any more than they'd ever wanted Dru & Neil to be "The Face" of Y&R

 

So do I, whenever I think about his daughters especially.

 

I think the biggest indication of this is the writing the couple received after it was clear that they were very popular. The show did everything it could to get fans to hate them together and want them apart. They never committed to them. But in all honesty, I think that was more about Mishael and Hilary than anything. They didn't want another black woman commanding a large fan base the way VR had.  That's more power than they wanted a black actress to have. So they changed her character to make her unlikable and not rootable. Yes, they gave her the airtime and lead story that her fans demanded but it was always a story and writing designed to destroy the character.

 

I've watched almost every daytime soap over the course of my 27 years of soap viewing and don't ever recall a couple nor character as terriblly written as Hevon and Hilary. Usually characters would get redemption arcs between bad acts. Any decent writing she got was a set up as shock for her next terrible act. 

Edited by ajsp35801

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So, of course, TPTB practically had to turn her into the bride of the devil to get viewers to hate her.  And when they realized that wasn't going to be enough -- that, like die-hard supporters of a certain commander-in-chief who shall remain nameless, viewers were in Hillary's corner no matter what they made her do -- they killed her a$$ first chance they got.  And not even a J.T.-like (or even Drucilla-like) death where there might be some question as to whether she's really dead.  Nope.  Hill is GOOD and dead.  Roll away the stone and all y'all gonna find is her rotting corpse and good weave.

 

I wasn't a fan, but even I could see what was going on.

Edited by Khan

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I wonder if they have a fear of being seen as a “black show,” which has been a common anxiety. They’ve always taken black folks for granted, that we’ve been trained through years of marginalization to empathize with white characters and not see ourselves, while the larger white audiences aren’t used to making the leap to empathize with non-whites as much. They are banking on black folks not putting up a fuss and taking what they’re given, while “making more space” for the white folks, throwing the diversity crowd a bone with the Rosaleses.

 

But now black audiences have more options than ever to see ourselves, and we’re not going to sit idly by and watch CBS/Sony kill us and push us to the margins, especially when we’ve been supporting this show and boosting its ratings for decades.

Edited by Faulkner

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37 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

Mishael Morgan's popularity caught them by surprise. Honestly, she was probably JFP's best hire during her tenure and the only one that caught on. 

 

TIIC worked OT to destroy Hevon.  I tuned out the moment Hillary went on TPIR with Neil.  You could easily see what was happening.  YR has not had my attention since.  

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And deep down, I think it may have ruffled some feathers higher-up that Miashel Morgan was getting a lot more attention than their ideal sanitized version of a black leading lady Christel Khalil . 

Edited by BetterForgotten

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I hope that all the love for KSJ and the love for what "Neil Winters" represented to so many actors/fans will get CBS/Sony to wake-up. You'd have thought they'd learned when Y&R lost over a million AA viewers after SM left and CBS was scrambling doing surveys to figure out WTH happened. 

 

Whatever test research demographics is pointing to Latinos replacing AA seems to be in vogue. Yesterday, I read Jennifer Lopez is headlining the MOTOWN tribute at Grammys on Sunday - during Black History Month to boot. How crazy is that? 

 

I truly hope Y&R comes up with an appropriate Neil exit storyline that is worthy of the character. My wish: bring Dru back when she hears of Neil's passing and kick-off a whole new era for the Winters. I know it'll never happen.

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1 hour ago, ajsp35801 said:

But in all honesty, I think that was more about Mishael and Hilary than anything. They didn't want another black woman commanding a large fan base the way VR had.  That's more power than they wanted a black actress to have. So they changed her character to make her unlikable and not rootable. Yes, they gave her the airtime and lead story that her fans demanded but it was always a story and writing tldesigned to destroy the character.

 

I've watched almost every daytime soap over the course of my 27 years of soap viewing and don't ever recall a couple nor character as terriblly written as Hevon and Hilary. Usually characters would get redemption arcs between bad acts. Any decent writing she got was a set up as shock for her next terrible act. 

 

I think you may be onto something about not wanting another black actress to even begin to think she can wield any influence, likely as a result of what happened with VR. Y&R would rather lose ratings share than risk another go-round with an assertive actress, especially an assertive black actress.

 

Marshall Travers is the only other daytime character that I can think of who matches Hilary.  Marshall, much like Hilary, was seen as a charismatic character who was also known to be duplicitous.  Lamman Rucker and daytime veteran Tamara Tunie had a red-hot chemistry that showed Jessica Griffin's character in a totally different light (sexy and bold).  They gave a boost to the show and became intensely popular to a mostly fading As The World Turns

So of course, TIIC had to make Marshall a rapist.  In fact, they wrote him as raping Jessica and Jessica, a lawyer (both were lawyers) had Marshall charged, arrested and a trial ensued where things got ugly.  Later, Marshall was killed off by perennial villain James Stenbeck, after James had temporarily made Marshall his lackey.  The only "saving grace" for Marshall was that he saved his formerly believed dead daughter Zara on the way out.

IMO that was the worst waste of a charismatic character played by a gorgeous talented actor that I've ever seen.  I'm still angry about it.  Jessica never got another good storyline and she was on very sporadically until she left sometime around '08-09.

 

1 hour ago, Khan said:

And not even a J.T.-like (or even Drucilla-like) death where there might be some question as to whether she's really dead.  Nope.  Hill is GOOD and dead.  Roll away the stone and all y'all gonna find is her rotting corpse and good weave.

 

Nuh-uh hon, Mishael is half-Indian so that hair is real, LOL.

 

1 hour ago, Faulkner said:

I wonder if they have a fear of being seen as a “black show,” which has been a common anxiety. They’ve always taken black folks for granted, that we’ve been trained through years of marginalization to empathize with white characters and not see ourselves, while the larger white audiences aren’t used to making the leap to empathize with non-whites as much. They are banking on black folks not putting up a fuss and taking what they’re given, while “making more space” for the white folks, throwing the diversity crowd a bone with the Rosaleses.

 

But now black audiences have more options than ever to see ourselves, and we’re not going to sit idly by and watch CBS/Sony kill us and push us to the margins, especially when we’ve been supporting this show and boosting its ratings for decades.

 

There was always the excuse of "well, it probably won't go over well with housewives in the midwest" thrown around.  It's the same mentality that movie studios used not to promote movies with primarily black and/or minority casts until SHOCKER Black Panther defied all the naysayers!

 

T.V. used to be seen as blazing trails and over the past 20 years it has been seen as leading Hollywood on the path to progressive programming but that is primetime.  Daytime appears to be the last holdout.

CBS/CBS Daytime will learn the hard way as hopefully, black viewers exercise their options and go elsewhere.  Y&R/B&B doesn't deserve loyalty from viewers who have been hard done in the last 15+ years.

 

48 minutes ago, ChitHappens said:

TIIC worked OT to destroy Hevon.  I tuned out the moment Hillary went on TPIR with Neil.  You could easily see what was happening.  YR has not had my attention since.  

 

My habits have been sporadic since 2008/2009, but I tuned out in earnest when it became clear that they were dumping Morgan. Now that I think back, I probably should've dumped Y&R much earlier but I now realize that it was likely my loyalty to some of the actors that kept me coming back.  The way that daytime television is structured, viewer loyalty is rarely rewarded these days-- not for the last 20 years, it seems.

 

34 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

And deep down, I think it may have ruffled some feathers that Miashel Morgan was getting a lot more attention than their ideal sanitized version of a black leading lady Christel Khalil . 

 

I have some feelings about that particular fanbase but I will save that for another time, another thread because I don't want to further hijack this one by going too far OT but I think that one odd off-shoot of the advocacy of some of these fanbases is that they saw other actors (not characters, mind you but actors) as the enemy.  Unfortunately, KSJ also bore the brunt of this in so many ways because his character had been written so horribly over the past several years.  I often wonder now what they think seeing that Hilary's removal from the canvas did not result in their character getting more screentime or better writing.  Go figure.

Edited by DramatistDreamer

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1 hour ago, Faulkner said:

we’ve been trained through years of marginalization to empathize with white characters and not see ourselves, while the larger white audiences aren’t used to making the leap to empathize with non-whites as much.

 

Yep. The only reason this particular conversation is happening is because of Kristoff's death.

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Just now, DeeeDee said:

 

Yep. The only reason this particular conversation is happening is because of Kristoff's death.

 

You should've ventured into the Cancelled Soaps section about two months ago, where I got attacked left, right and center by some troll(s) after trying to discuss this topic in the As The World Turns thread.

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1 minute ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

You should've ventured into the Cancelled Soaps section about two months ago, where I got attacked left, right and center by some troll(s) after trying to discuss this topic in the As The World Turns thread.

 

That was nasty to witness.  I'm just ashamed I didn't stand up for you more.  I should have, and I'm truly sorry.

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36 minutes ago, edgeofnik said:

Yesterday, I read Jennifer Lopez is headlining the MOTOWN tribute at Grammys on Sunday - during Black History Month to boot. How crazy is that? 

 

"Crazy" is not the word.  More like "insulting and disrespectful as hell."

Edited by Khan

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