Unpopular Opinions

[Soaplovers]

When was the last time soaps wrote a true blue middle class and/or working class family?

 

I know the shows has the age old story of a working class girl wanting wealth and power thus goes after a wealthy guy... has there every been a working class girl/guy that ever.. gasps... obtains that by getting an education and working their way up the corporate ladders and the challenges being presented such as health care insurance, living with roommates vs living with family, dating vs staying single, etc?

[Faulkner]

Raul on Y&R?

[DeeeDee]

The Evans & Patels on OLTL?

[kalbir]

 

The Abbotts also had their own Alexis in Dina.

[Fevuh]

Lauren Hill, As the World Turns. 

The Snyders.  As the World Turns. 

[mikelyons]

I've enjoyed following this thread.

Here's a link to a great article written about Peyton Place called "Why Institutional Memory was Peyton Place's Hidden Asset" (https://tv.avclub.com/why-institutional-memory-was-peyton-place-s-hidden-asse-1798241844)

The article argues that even though there was turmoil and turnover on the show during its first season, the characters, story, and show remained stable and got better because of the stability of the writing team and how well they knew their show. If these writers had left the show, it may have been a mess. I think that once the creator - or the team which steers the show towards excellence leaves and takes their passion with them, any show becomes another job that people do by rote whether it's writing a soap or promoting Pepsi. Passion from the producers, writers, networks, cast & crew, and audience are what matters. If you're missing one aspect, the whole thing falls apart.

Here are some quotes from the article:

 

"Duration was Peyton Place’s hidden asset. Its creators had the luxury to build characters over the course of years rather than within the confines of a fifty-minute hour. Because the writing staff was relatively stable after the first year, Peyton Place developed a terrific institutional memory. Complex characters remained emotionally consistent throughout years of labyrinthine plot twists. Norman Harrington (Christopher Connelly), Rodney’s sullen younger brother, grew from near-delinquency toward a simple contentment unknown for most of the characters; the catalyst was the introduction of Rita Jacks (Patricia Morrow), a cute oddball who was clearly Norman’s soul mate. Lana Wood played the duplicitous waitress Sandy Webber with a lip-biting sensuality that made her perhaps the most tangibly sexualized female in television up to that point. But as the show laid out Sandy’s depressing options—remain faithful to an abusive husband (Stephen Oliver) or cheat with the manipulative, unattainable Rodney—her honesty and self-assertiveness took on a heroic stature."

 

"Betty Anderson, one of only three regulars who lasted for the whole five-year run, may have benefited most from the writers’ skill for deepening and reinventing their characters. They paired Betty romantically with lawyer Steven Cord (James Douglas), a fellow social striver whose illegitimacy gave him a world-class inferiority complex. Although their schemes were petty, Betty and Steven tapped into a universal anguish—the feeling of being on the outside looking in—that made them more sympathetic than many of the “good” characters. The writers also threw out frequent callbacks to Betty’s past with Rodney, reuniting them occasionally for what-might-have-been scenes in which they came awkwardly to terms with their failed marriage and lost child. With years of backstory to draw upon, O’Neal and Parkins could play varied notes of jealousy, ruefulness, sweetness, and mordant humor, building an emotional array that could only exist in a series with the longevity and continuity of Peyton Place."

 

"Money, or more accurately class, was Peyton Place’s overarching subject. Monash and the writers used their Nielsen capital to reintroduce the issue that ABC had most wanted to avoid. When Rodney killed rapist Joe Chernak, Joe’s impoverished family—effectively a rewrite of the Crosses—became major characters. Seething Stella Chernak (Lee Grant) emerged as an avatar of class resentment, vowing revenge on the rich kid and anyone else connected to her brother’s death. The writers delineated socioeconomic strata with precision. A doctor, a bookseller, a barmaid, and a secretary all held slightly different positions within the town’s social hierarchy, and the uneasy, unspoken maneuvering for purchase on that invisible ladder motivated many of the most interesting conflicts."

 

"To craft those conflicts, Monash more or less invented the modern writing staff. Although daytime soaps and variety shows were staff-written, prime-time dramas at that time operated on a freelance basis. Peyton Place’s full-time creative team consisted of a head writer (De Roy) and two story editors (Del Reisman and Nina Laemmle) who supervised the plotting, using color-coded index cards to map out characters’ arcs on an office wall. Working under them were about eight full-time writers, one of whom was assigned half of each two-act episode in rotation. This structure was novel enough to trigger a dispute between Fox and the Writers Guild, which ultimately ruled that the studio owed the writers additional pay. Monash’s other innovation was to align the writing staff demographically with the characters. In a medium dominated by middle-aged men, the Peyton Place writers—which included Carol Sobieski (an Oscar nominee for Fried Green Tomatoes) and Michael Gleason (the creator of Remington Steele)—were nearly all under thirty-five, and about half were women. Their voices had a subtly progressive influence. Staff writer Peggy Shaw penned a scene in which Constance and Elliot returned from the market and both of them, not just Constance, put away the groceries and prepared dinner. “I thought, well, that’s one in the eye, without saying anything,” Shaw recalled. “Nine million people are seeing that.""

 

 

[j swift]

The number one trending video on YouTube this morning was a video about a Youtuber and her boyfriend who had broken up.  Beyond the weirdness that these people who are only famous to a very small audience still feel the need to publicize their relationship as if they were Brangelina, it stuck me that this is the "new soap opera."  Commenters are the Phoebe Tyler's of the internet, always judging and getting into people's private lives.  The YouTubers are like Kitty Shea, doing anything for a bit of fame. 

 

These people wear makeup, light themselves and have background music for their daily lives.  They seek to always look perfect and they even edit their speech to reduce hesitation. The supercouples meet on twitter, show their first date on Instagram and then create a youtube channel to documents the drama of being in a relationship.  If one of these youtubers gets amnesia, an evil twin, or goes to work in the European office of their family business then my theory will be proven.

 

Search the tag, we have to talk, and it is filled with people looking straight to camera and talking about their live's tragedies.  It is an odd piece of entertainment that must fill the soap void for teens who don't watch tv.

[Soaplovers]

 

Another unpopular opinion... The Snyders were an unnecessary creation that helped shift the focus from the Hughes family as the main family.

[mikelyons]

Agreed. 

[vetsoapfan]

 

That's a really great, perceptive, and accurate analysis of the Peyton Place situation, but I think it holds true for all soaps. A major reason the audience watches these shows is because we care about the characters. The better written and more consistent they are, the more we want to stick with them.

 

 

The Snyders. Sigh. I never warmed up to them either, and felt they were an extraneous (if not irritating) intrusion on the show, sidetracking attention away from the Hugheses and the Stewarts.

 

I actively disliked Josh, Caleb and Ellie. I was totally indifferent to Iva (that drip), Seth, Aaron and Meg, and then started to loathe Meg when Marie Wilson assumed the role. I was indifferent to Holden as well, but at least when he first arrived he looked good in those tight jeans, LOL. The only character from the entire clan I liked was Emma. If TPTB had limited the Snyders' presence to her and Holden I would have accepted it, but the Snyder family became The Fungus That Ate Oakdale. I was not impressed.

 

Similarly, I was not thrilled with the Reardons on TGL, but Nola was certainly Lisa Brown's better role, and a wonderful character who provided great drama during the triangle with Morgan and Kelly. I found Ellen Dolan's Maureen to be brittle and off-putting, but once Ellen Parker took over the part, her warmth, charm and decency made me adore Maureen. I eventually accepted her as the matriarch of the Bauer family and as the heart of the show. So...of course TIIC had to kill her off. 

[DramatistDreamer]

 

 

Also, not to be a fuss-budget but it's Lauryn Hill and the character she portrayed was Kyra.

[koos]

Those invasive '80s bloodlines are all I know of genuine, layered soap families... compared to today, they seemed much more natural and real(?).

 

I was a big fan of GL's Coopers. Especially Buzz. Maybe only because Justin Deas is great. Harley and Marina sure started to suck towards the end, though.

[Sindacco]

For many years on DAYS it seemed to be the opposite. The women seemed to have the power, or at least the main attention from TPTB. Corday loves Alfonso, Reeves (despite the contract breach in 1995) and Sweeney. 

 

Hell, even in recent years many of the female vets remained on the show while the men were fired or low-balled out.

 

Kristian Alfonso/Peter Reckell

Deidre Hall/Drake Hogestyn. Although in the late 90s and early 00s it seemed like TPTB were more interested in writing for John than Marlena.

Mary Beth Evans/Stephen Nichols (same thing is about to happen again)
Melissa Reeves/Matthew Ashford

[Soaplovers]

Going off my Synder view on ATWT...

 

I have to say I thought Lily was an ungrateful bitch, but only when Martha Byrne played the part.  When Rattray, Beck, and the first actress (Deakins) played her, I found Lily more likable for some reason.  When rewatching the 1987 episodes where Lily finds out Iva is her mother, the way she is angry at Lucinda...saying her house isn't her home anymore, etc... I was hoping Lucinda would have cut her off and removed the trust fund and let that ungrateful princess go live with the Snyder hicks.