2 minutes ago, ajsp35801 said:

 

But isn't that tantamount to not liking it? If I'm remembering correctly she agreed with Logan on Ashley getting another off beat love interests. It wasn't ideal. Praising of the actor AS was the only positive thing she had to say. 

 

I mean, I guess so? She just hasn't out and out said she hates it though, that's all I was trying to basically get at. I also don't think she looks all that bored on-screen but we all view things a tad differently, LOL. I guess I'll say she's probably not as committed as she could be. But I feel like she's been chanelling Kristen DiMera for years now so ....

10 minutes ago, KMan101 said:

 

Same. I wasn't trying to necessarily gear my post to you, it just prompted me to post what I did because I've seen similar posts. The little things, I agree, it's what's making the difference. It's never going to be *great* but it's *good*. Just ... things need to happen. Like DeeeDee has said, they basically went from one extreme to the other and no viewers are sort of left in the lurch. You have fans of Pratt's trash where plot explodes every day and then you have classic Sally rebuilding characters and putting the canvas back into position.

 

It's nice to enjoy the show again. I think there are a few things, personally, that I'd like to see fixed and I don't love every decision made, but it's still good.

Oh no, not at all, no hard feelings  It's going to be a long progress. I hope they find their feet soon enough though. I shudder to think of another LML/Pratt arriving on scene a year from now...

1 hour ago, Darn said:

The tone is better. The stories are simply do not have a strong execution. It's okay if people don't like what you like.

 

Gloria doesn't have more screen time than Lauren, she has more agency.

 

This!

I'd just like to see Lauren be more than a background player in her own storyline. The story was promoted as being Lauren's but SS have given Gloria far more to do while we see Lauren swizzling cocktails at the GCAC with Phyllis.

3 hours ago, KMan101 said:

 

Agreed ....

 

I kind of see what you mean about Davidson, sort of, but I definitely see Heinle all uncomfortable with the Reed story. But it could be that she's just a terrible actress. The real Victoria wouldn't put up with anything she's been put through. She'd castrate Billy and come down hard on Reed. The writing for Victoria just sucks.

 

Eileen is a notoriously difficult actress to place in romantic pairings.

 

IMO there were two ways the new regime could've approached Ashley.

 

They could've committed to rebuilding the character (absent a relationship) by having her slowly work through all the trauma she's had to deal with over the past decade or have her proceed full speed ahead with a light romance that is heavy on fun (hence my previous Ji Min/Jill & Sean/Jill comparisons).

 

But then again most of Y&R's older actors (and couples) exhibit a severe lack of warmth so it's not as if Ashley/ED is alone in that sense.

 

3 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

Lauren (and the essence of the Fenmore's story) is currently being buried underneath the rubble of other characters and their motivations. 

 

It's fine to have the side story of Jack and Ashley squabbling over Jabot's resources being spent unduly on his merger with Fenmore's (or whatever it is) but that shouldn't take over the entire scheme.

That's why weeks ago, I mentioned that it could've added some type of complexity to the storyline if Lauren were truly confronted with having to make some tough choices like budget cuts (she mentioned it but we never saw what changes) or layoffs (she mentioned the possibility but an opportunity was wasted there). All we really saw was hijinks from Gloria against the backdrop of Lauren's and Phyllis' complaints of sabotage.

 

I have problems with B&B, but one thing I've always appreciated was that they tend to include the technical aspects of running a fashion house (even if they sometimes don't get it right).

We see designers sketching, getting critiques on their designs, discussing hemlines and necklines, altering designs on fit models, sometimes we even see preparations for a fashion show with lighting technicians,  etc.

This was one of the big reasons why I was disappointed when they abandoned Ashley's lab because at least it was one solid way to connect Jabot with its roots.

 

We hear about Fenmore's but we never see the actual boutique. It would be nice to see a consultant (Neil could've acted as a freelance/independent management consultant) walk through Fenmore's and make a bunch of suggestions (is the boutique poorly lit? Is the carpeting/flooring dated? Do the displays or clothing racks get messy?). 

We hear that Fenmore's is not keeping up with the times but other than having an ineffective website (which we haven't seen either), all we hear about is an app (which we didn't even get to see the blueprint for).

 

SS could have did a bit of consultation with people who have built apps (those incubation centers are in pretty much ever city on the coasts, these days) and get a bit more detail.

Have some interns do more research on the problems of these struggling department stores and retailers to get more detail on what strategies these stores are using to try to pull themselves back from the brink.

 

This primary Fenmore's story is looking weak right now and it needs a boost. There are a lot of ways to give it more life and none of them involve Gloria. 

 

*ETA. It would've been great to have Neil have something to do other than wring his hands over Devon and Hillary.

Maybe Neil would start out as a favor to Lauren, to act as a management consultant (we know that Fenmore's has been cash-strapped) but decides that he really wants to launch his own management consultant firm. It would be a small independent firm, he would be working with (not for) clients, shaping up businesses. In the future he could work with all the corporate firms and even after a major incident at the GCPD, he could work with Paul in improving relations between the PD and the community or whomever.

There's actually a lot that could be done with Neil professionally, even though romantically that's still a big ?

 

+1.

 

If the writers were even halfway willing to write Gloria as the character was originally conceived she'd have no problem working to earn back Michael & Lauren's trust instead of resorting to constant victimhood. And it would make more sense than committing all these unnecessary schemes for an entry level position.

Edited February 6, 20178 yr by DeeeDee

I wish they would try MO/Abby with a woman. I know they never will, but when it's not working with men, go in another direction, I say.

 

I think it's funny that people were castigating the show for having Reed pay for porn and then it was done in a totally realistic way. People do pay for cam and if I were Victoria I'd be worried.

 

I don't think how Ravi dresses right now matters much. My money is on someone like Phyllis or Abby giving him a makeover a which point his personality will magically change. Anyone who watches GH saw this happen with Sabrina.

1 hour ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

I love getting into the 'meat' of it and discussing/critiquing it. A year ago, I would've just given up and only post once in a blue moon but I love that I can put my 'writer's cap' on and get specific about things that are going well vs. things that need tweaking.

 

I love discussing it with others who know the history of the show and are willing to read and comment constructively (notice I didn't say troll ) on my post or anyone elses. I think it's almost always in good fun and in the spirit of wanting the show to do well. 

 

Agreed. I love debating character motivations, storylines, etc. It's fun. I know I personally nitpick at times but it's what we all do here. It's nice to see this thread be so healthy month after month now.

 

Hehe on troll

1 hour ago, Y&R21395 said:

Oh no, not at all, no hard feelings  It's going to be a long progress. I hope they find their feet soon enough though. I shudder to think of another LML/Pratt arriving on scene a year from now...

 

Oh God, those names. LML is what drove me away. Pratt was absolute trash. I hope Sally's it, for a long while. Even if I don't like something I still trust her with the show.

7 minutes ago, Juliajms said:

I wish they would try MO/Abby with a woman. I know they never will, but when it's not working with men, go in another direction, I say.

 

I think it's funny that people were castigating the show for having Reed pay for porn and then it was done in a totally realistic way. People do pay for cam and if I were Victoria I'd be worried.

 

I don't think how Ravi dresses right now matters much. My money is on someone like Phyllis or Abby giving him a makeover a which point his personality will magically change. Anyone who watches GH saw this happen with Sabrina.

 

YES! I agree about pairing Abby with a woman. I could see MO playing that. It's pretty sad that we have Noah, Summer, Kyle (not even on the damn canvas) and Abby completely unable to lead a storyline on their own. For a show called YOUNG and the Restless, it's done a piss poor job with it's younger characters.

 

I fully expect a Ravi makeover. But I think we sort of got that with New Years. But we'll see.

 

I didn't mind Reed paying for porn, I liked the fallout today, even though Reed was hilarious whining to Billy about Victoria "losing it". Ah to be an angsty teen again. I don't like that Reed had to get that dig in at Victoria though about being Victor's daughter. Though it's what a teen would say. I thought it was meant to beat up Victoria, when she has every right to be as "hard" as she was on Reed. I actually thought Heinle showed up for work today, until the very very end. And why did her robe look like something from Mrs. Claus's closet? And yeah, people pay for cams. I'm sure people rack up quite the bill, so she has every right to be angry. She trusted him with her credit card. It's kind of a big deal.

35 minutes ago, DeeeDee said:

 

Eileen is a notoriously difficult actress to place in romantic pairings.

 

IMO were two ways the new regime could've approached Ashley.

 

They could've committed to rebuilding the character (absent a relationship) by having her slowly work through all the trauma she's had to deal with over the past decade or have her proceed full speed ahead with a light romance that is heavy on fun (hence my previous Ji Min/Jill & Sean/Jill comparisons).

 

But then again most of Y&R's older actors (and couples) exhibit a severe lack of warmth so it's not as if Ashley/ED is alone in that sense.

 

+1.

 

If the writers were even halfway willing to write Gloria as the character was originally conceived she'd have no problem working to earn back Michael & Lauren's trust instead of resorting to constant victimhood. And it would make more sense than committing all these unnecessary schemes for an entry level position.

 

All of this

Edited February 6, 20178 yr by KMan101

44 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

This!

I'd just like to see Lauren be more than a background player in her own storyline. The story was promoted as being Lauren's but SS have given Gloria far more to do while we see Lauren swizzling cocktails at the GCAC with Phyllis.

 

Yep. This became Gloria's story, along with Jack's. And including GC Buzz just makes it even more convoluted. It's becoming something completely different.

3 hours ago, Darn said:

The stories are simply do not have a strong execution.

Sally Sussman doesn't know how to write stories period!  She doesn't know how to craft a story properly. She is one lazy HW writer. Lauren's story has amounted to nothing but the Gloria Hour Show. There is not one real story going on at Y&R right now. There is nothing to keep you watching day after day.

3 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

I love getting into the 'meat' of it and discussing/critiquing it. A year ago, I would've just given up and only post once in a blue moon but I love that I can put my 'writer's cap' on and get specific about things that are going well vs. things that need tweaking.

 

I love discussing it with others who know the history of the show and are willing to read and comment constructively (notice I didn't say troll ) on my post or anyone elses. I think it's almost always in good fun and in the spirit of wanting the show to do well. 

 

This is me also. I enjoy discussing details of scenes and stories (writer's intent vs how it came across to the audience, the story the show wants to tell vs the story the viewers perceive, purpose of scenes and what they tell me about the character). That's very interesting to me. This board is probably the only place I can have those discussions. Every other community is full of agenda, bias, stanning, and trolling. No honest discussion can ever be had there. 

3 hours ago, Darn said:

The tone is better. The stories are simply do not have a strong execution. It's okay if people don't like what you like.

 

Gloria doesn't have more screen time than Lauren, she has more agency.

 

+1

3 hours ago, KMan101 said:

 

I mean, I guess so? She just hasn't out and out said she hates it though, that's all I was trying to basically get at. I also don't think she looks all that bored on-screen but we all view things a tad differently, LOL. I guess I'll say she's probably not as committed as she could be. But I feel like she's been chanelling Kristen DiMera for years now so ....

 

Agreed about the boredom. I don't get that from ED either. She's not protesting through her performance the way I think KSJ is at the moment. I swear I thought Neil was going to yawn on his scenes with Devon last week. 

3 minutes ago, ajsp35801 said:

 

This is me also. I enjoy discussing details of scenes and stories (writer's intent vs how it came across to the audience, the story the show wants to tell vs the story the viewers perceive, purpose of scenes and what they tell me about the character). That's very interesting to me. This board is probably the only place I can have those discussions. Every other community is full of agenda, bias, stanning, and trolling. No honest discussion can ever be had there. 

 

+1

 

Agreed about the boredom. I don't get that from ED either. She's not protesting through her performance the way I think KSJ is at the moment. I swear I thought Neil was going to yawn on his scenes with Devon last week. 

 

LOL I know. Kristoff looks SO checked out. They aren't even really bothering with him, are they? I mean, after Pratt's destruction of the character, backburner and supporting is just fine for now IMO, but he has to be feeling a tad discouraged, no?

1 hour ago, KMan101 said:

 

Yep. This became Gloria's story, along with Jack's. And including GC Buzz just makes it even more convoluted. It's becoming something completely different.

 

I don't think that's it so much as I see Sally putting characters in place and setting the dynamics for future story she's going to tell with this merger. My gut says Jabot/Fenmore vs Newman battle is the end game for business stories. It'll work well with lily modeling, Brash and Sassy, Chelsea 2.0, and GC buzz tied in. I'm looking forward to it. 

5 minutes ago, KMan101 said:

 

LOL I know. Kristoff looks SO checked out. They aren't even really bothering with him, are they? I mean, after Pratt's destruction of the character, backburner and supporting is just fine for now IMO, but he has to be feeling a tad discouraged, no?

 

KSJ's got more airtime supporting Devon and Hilary under Sally than he ever had leading his own stories post VR's departure. His character was destroyed by Pratt. He has to know that. He has to know Neil needs work. Instead of checking out he needs to help Sally repair his character and that family by giving it his all as his Winter's patriarch...before the show casts someone else to perform that role. And I'm going to leave it at that. 

what has Colin done this time? Really tired of his schemes and his lies...he needs to be written out for good. he shows up, tries to screw Jill, she's stupid enough to fall for it, forgives him, he leaves and ten shows back up to do it all over again. rather frustrating.

I'm definitely in the 'We don't need Colin' camp. What's his purpose, other than to give backrubs to Jill and half-way goad her into getting irritated, then half-way try to calm her down by telling her to go on vacation?

 

I agree that Neil doesn't need to be frontburner right now but even side characters need something interesting and I still believe the character would be better put to use in a business capacity, but the idea I presented means we'd actually have to see the boutique,

by the way,

Are we ever going to see Fenmore's?? It's not real to me unless I actually see the physical space of the boutique.

I want to see what state the boutique is in and why business has slowed.

Even brick and mortar stores concerned with upping web traffic still prioritize getting people in the actual door of the store.

 

With Ravi, I like the character, like the actor and I am perfectly fine with him being on the sidelines for awhile assisting other characters. 

He and Ashley could be friends, a crush on his part is fine, maybe they attend the odd social engagement together before one or both of them decide that they definitely don't want to veer anywhere near a romantic relationship so they want to remain platonic-- this has been done successfully on soaps before, I don't see why it couldn't work again.

Edited February 7, 20178 yr by DramatistDreamer

Monday (US) wasn't bad, but it had a hilarious line illustrates how 'old' these writers are: Billy to Phyllis: "This online dating FAD." Good grief. I actually liked the Victoria/Reed stuff - that came across as more authentic than a lot AH's stuff. Hilary/Jack are still my endgame because I want her in the Abbott house and in Jabot. Plus, I like the history between the characters and the actors do work well together.

 

While GC Buzz could be viable - I don't think these writers have enough to make it anything more than a lazy plot point (like "Clarissa") to amplify a story. Honestly, there's nothing else going on in GC now that would be worthy of GC Buzz. Move Devon to Newman and Mariah to B&S. 

5 hours ago, DeeeDee said:

 

Eileen is a notoriously difficult actress to place in romantic pairings.

 

It's been that way since her first run. All of Ashley's pairings in ED's first three years tanked, but then Bill Bell struck gold with the eternal triangle.