I suppose people will also claim EJ didn't sexually assault Sami either when he hired Fake Rafe to manipulate, control, and have sex with her because he didn't perform the act. Yet in murder conspiracies, the brain behind it is always equally or even more complicit of the crime as the perpetrator is.

I just can't grasp the 'made a deal' argument. I honestly think there are some who believe Sami secretly wanted it, yet there was NADA about how those scenes were played that conveyed that one bit. Or are folks going to claim she faked the terror and fear she showed both before and after it happened.

I'm with you Rose, it sort of disturbs me that people think it's really no big deal when we know there are a multitude of messages conveyed through fiction. Exposing rape as the crime that it is and the fact that its a crime of power and control NOT SEX had a lot to do with some of the portrayals on film and on television in the 1970's on forward, where it was no longer shown as some sort of sexual foreplay.

What about the example someone used with Jillian on AMC sleeping with David because she wanted his help and was desperate. Even though Lucas under a beam is very serious business, women cannot use their bodies as currency and then cry rape. This is what rape has been reduced to?

What about the example someone used with Jillian on AMC sleeping with David because she wanted his help and was desperate. Even though Lucas under a beam is very serious business, women cannot use their bodies as currency and then cry rape. This is what rape has been reduced to?

Agreed completely.

Okay now I'm regretting making this thread

Okay now I'm regretting making this thread

LOL! Yeah. Threads about rape tend to end the same way as threads about Victoria Rowell. Although I think the discussion here has managed to remain spirited AND civil.

I just can't believe that soaps are going to that old chestnut.."rape," once again and that somoene is defending it. Actually I am suprised there is actually someone who is still paid to write about soaps.

Is anyone even remotely entertained by rape storylines? You don't see rape on primetime why so much on soaps (the closest it gets is a threat of rape..as in the Walkind Dead with Michone and the kid being threatened...and the bad guys quickly got theirs...) No wonder soaps are dead..the writing hasnt changed and the fringe journalists who write about soaps still defend that crap.

I just can't believe that soaps are going to that old chestnut.."rape," once again and that somoene is defending it. Actually I am suprised there is actually someone who is still paid to write about soaps.

Is anyone even remotely entertained by rape storylines? You don't see rape on primetime why so much on soaps (the closest it gets is a threat of rape..as in the Walkind Dead with Michone and the kid being threatened...and the bad guys quickly got theirs...) No wonder soaps are dead..the writing hasnt changed and the fringe journalists who write about soaps still defend that crap.

You need to watch more tv if you think theres no rape on primetime.

Yeah there is an entire show centered around fictional sex crimes, Law and Order SVU. And they may not glorify it but they certainly exploit it for entertainment.

Edited July 17, 201411 yr by JaneAusten

Yeah there is an entire show centered around fictional sex crimes, Law and Order SVU. And they may not glorify it but they certainly exploit it for entertainment.

I don't find that enteraining,but that is the whole point of that show. So I can choose not to watch it. And yes, they don't exploit it (if a victim fell in love with their attacker they would show it was freaky...) and they would never have some never been journalist defending it if they did. I find it odd that a genre geared towards women would have so much rape in the storylines.

What about the example someone used with Jillian on AMC sleeping with David because she wanted his help and was desperate. Even though Lucas under a beam is very serious business, women cannot use their bodies as currency and then cry rape. This is what rape has been reduced to?

There were some fans who said David was a rapist because of Gillian, but the characters themselves did not consider it rape. With the Gillian storyline, it was presented more as prostitution. Alex Marick told Erica about it in the context of, "Your boyfriend is a horrible person," and Erica specifically said, "Are you accusing David of RAPE?" and Alex backpedaled and said no, she wasn't, but that he prostituted her and used her and made her feel terrible. Ryan was furious with David, of course, but he was very angry with Gillian for sleeping with David in the first place. Gillian herself didn't want to talk about it to Alex because she was ashamed of what she'd done and the way she'd used her body for money. So yeah, David's a jerk, but he's not a rapist.

I don't think rape has been reduced to women claiming rape if they regret having sex later. If anything, I would have to applaud the shows that DO show rape for the horrific violation that it is (like Michael raping Bianca - it was horrible to watch, and her lack of consent was never debatable). Ideally, if a show chose to create a scene where consent appeared dubious, they would then opt to use it as a teachable moment to talk about consent and what it means and what constitutes rape. Unfortunately I don't have a whole lot of faith in the remaining shows at the moment.

I don't find that enteraining,but that is the whole point of that show. So I can choose not to watch it. And yes, they don't exploit it (if a victim fell in love with their attacker they would show it was freaky...) and they would never have some never been journalist defending it if they did. I find it odd that a genre geared towards women would have so much rape in the storylines.

Well romance novels are infamous for having rape storylines (and a lot of ones that suffer from the soap-style "fell in love with my rapist".) I'm sure this is changing as romance novels get increasingly more sophisticated, but I also think, from what I've heard from a romance novel obsessed friend, there's increasing subgenres that push rape-for-titilation (elements of 50 Shades of course could be seen as this.)

It's probably too difficult to discuss on a forum, but I think it is legit to bring up that women (or maybe I should just say people, I mean look at a lot of gay porn "stories") often on some level find that whole rapist/romance taboo as appealing. And to be clear, that does not mean I think such stories should continue on soaps, or that writers and producers shouldn't be smarter about how rape is dealt with when they do choose to use it.

And Caorlyn really feels like she's from 4 decades ago (not just here, in everything she writes.)

I'd almost forgotten, but I think this counts. Another SB story concerning sex and a non-consenting party was a feverish and delirious Cruz Castillo being taken advantage of by Victoria Lane (he thought he was with Eden). That encounter led to the conception of baby Chip. Again, disgusting.

I don't know of anyone who would apologize for raping someone if they didn't rape someone. EJ apologized. Case closed.

I suppose he could've said, "I'm sorry if you felt like I raped you," but that would probably seem insincere.

Edited July 18, 201411 yr by Gray Bunny

I don't know of anyone who would apologize for raping someone if they didn't rape someone. EJ apologized. Case closed.

At that point the writers felt that they inflamed the audience enough in regards to the storyline that they felt a need to concede at some point. Regardless, Sami saw it as rape and EJ was going to have to make that concession in order to make any head way with her and for viewers to move on with Ejami on the relationship front. I saw it more as EJ saying he was sorry for having her make that choice that night and having her make that decision. Over time I believe he realized that he couldn't force her into loving him as he did in his previous attempts in 2007, something Sami acknowledged when she understood EJ was doing the same thing to her that she did to Austin. So they bonded over that, it's interesting that it was the last time either of them ever mentioned it from that point forward.

Initially though EJ didn't see it as rape (and I agree with that logic and approach) and fought tooth and nail with Sami about that description for at least 8 or 9 months. Regardless Sami felt that she was raped, and that was something that needed to be dealt between the both of them. If she actually was or not is still an obvious point of contention, even years after the event as seen through out this thread.

Initially though EJ didn't see it as rape

Most rapists dont

Three generations of Barber women have been raped on Y&R.