Members Skin Posted July 13, 2014 Members Share Posted July 13, 2014 EJ didn't threaten to kill Sami or Lucas during their time in the car. He never threatened to hurt her nor did he say he would kill her if Sami didn't sleep with him. That is why it's a failure of an argument when people say that she was afraid of EJ that night in the car. How could Sami be afraid of EJ when she was the one who stayed in the car with him, refused to go back to the police boarder and ask them for help in saving Lucas and then proceeded to ask him to help her save Lucas from being trapped under the log in the cabin? Ultimately Sami had multiple options that night, she did not need to have sex with EJ to save Lucas. There were multiple alternatives and she choose to have sex with EJ to save Lucas' life. The end. That is not rape. At any point in time Sami could have said no, not unbuttoned her blouse and leave the car and find other people to help her. She made the concious desicion not to do that. Thus no rape occured. That's not coercion. Coercion would be EJ strapped Lucas up and had gun men aimed to shoot at Lucas if Sami didn't sleep with him. Obviously not the case. Sami could have walked out of the car and walked back to the police station EJ and Sami had just passed and asked the police officers for help. That alone shows that Sami had other options. As to two adults being intoxicated and having sex, that is not rape either. Rape would be one of the people being drunk and another one being sober and sleeping with them without their consent. Agreed, and also an apt point. I would say it's not rape if there is a choice that is offered. If at any point the person can choose not to have sex with an individual it becomes consensual. I would also argue that there is a difference between liking the sex, wanting the sex or actively seducing another person. I don't understand the notion that because Sami didn't want to have sex, that automatically makes it rape. There are tons of housewives, spouses or partners who don't want to have sex with their regular partner at numerous times during their lives but commit to doing it anyway, but that would not automatically make them rape victims. Ultimately Sami had other options and chose to make the choice she made and then cried about it after because she wanted Lucas to still love her and for her family to see her as a victim. The show itself didn't even call it a rape at the time, for the better part of 8 or 9 months it was never reffered as such, which is why I still think the term "rape" for what happened with EJ and Sami is dubious. Sami did something she didn't want to do because it would benefit her needs. Which is only slightly different from all the other times she has screwed someone else over. Where was Sami coerced? She had a choice and agreed to the terms, EJ was not the only one who could have helped her save Lucas. She could have walked out of the car at any point in time and turned back and asked for the police department to help her save her fiance. She chose to not do that and to have EJ help her, under the terms EJ laid out for her. EJ never threatened her with a gun or Lucas with a gun. He never threatened or even implied a threat that he would shoot her if she didn't sleep with him. It was a deal, a deal Sami agreed to when she didn't have to agree in the first place. Hard to call that rape. She wasn't intimadted. How in the world does an intimated person ask their tormentor for help for their fiance? How does an intimated person stay in the car with their tormentor instead of seeking help from the police department? This is the stuff that invalidates so many of the claims people say in regards to that night and call it rape. Ultimately Sami's "no" changed into a "yes" when she realized that she could get EJ to do something for her, and that is when it ceases to be "rape" and changes from rape to consensual sex. Exactly. It's like people forget that it was Sami's idea in the first place to use EJ to help save Lucas. EJ was willing to save Lucas for a price, and Sami agreed to the terms of payment. Not rape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members koos Posted July 13, 2014 Members Share Posted July 13, 2014 He had a gun pointed right at her at the beginning of the "not-rape" sequence. But OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cheap21 Posted July 13, 2014 Members Share Posted July 13, 2014 he had a gun pointed before they went through the roadblock to get her to drive through it and not expose him to the cops. There was no gun aimed at anyone when she was making her deal after that. He didn't use that to force her into having sex with him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Skin Posted July 13, 2014 Members Share Posted July 13, 2014 My thoughts exactly, and further more the gun never came up in discussion of their deal and Sami wasn't thinking about it at all when she was asking EJ to help her move Lucas. If Sami was afraid that EJ was going to kill her or Lucas with the gun it would have made no sense for her to ask EJ to help her. Which is why I can't believe Sami was ever afraid of EJ hurting her or Lucas. Why would she bring someone she was afraid would kill her or Lucas to help them? Why would she bring a predator to her weakened fiance when she knows she wouldn't be able to stop EJ from further harming him or hurting herself with no one around to assist or protect them from this 6'5 man? It doesn't make any sense if that is the argument people are trying to make. Which means one thing, that Sami didn't feel EJ was a threat to Lucas or herself, for even considering using EJ to help Lucas in the cabin. Overall, the entire thing just makes no sense at all if you are following the situation logically. In order to believe that Sami was coerced by EJ you would first have to believe she felt she was in danger for herself or Lucas, and that doesn't make sense considering what Sami asked EJ to do for her, after their bargain was made. Thus one can't make the statement she was afraid for her life or Lucas' life at the hands of EJ. Which is the primary arguement for rape via coercion. Once one understands that, the idea that EJ coerced her argument unravels and no one can adequately argue that she was raped by him in virtually any capacity as she consented to sex in order for EJ to provide a service for her. One could argue that EJ took advatnage of a situation, but then again so did Sami when she asked him to help her. They both used each other to acheive their own personal goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gray Bunny Posted July 13, 2014 Members Share Posted July 13, 2014 Wasn't this someone's signature image here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cassadine1991 Posted July 13, 2014 Author Members Share Posted July 13, 2014 Doesn't look like it, she's terrified Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JellicleCat Posted July 13, 2014 Members Share Posted July 13, 2014 How about another example, involving Ridge and Brooke on B&B. It happened during a time when Brooke was being torn between Ridge and Nick. She was very stressed out over the whole situation, and had taken some sleeping pills to help her sleep. Ridge was at her house, and she told him to leave, then went upstairs to bed. He didn't leave though, instead he went up to her bedroom, crawled into her bed and had sex with her, while she was more or less drugged. She did protest a bit, but she was too out of it to really put up any resistance. At first there were some strong reactions to what Ridge had done, both from Brooke, and from her father, but it was soon glossed over and forgotten. What made it worse in my opinion was that this was not the first time Ridga had done something like this. He did almost the exact same thing to Caroline. She was sick and had taken medicine when he crawled into bed with her and had sex with her, while she thought he was Thorne, whom she was married to at the time. Both Caroline and Brooke had romantic feelings for Ridge when these incidents happened, but Caroline wasn't aware that it was him she slept with, and Brooke had told him to leave and told him to stop when he got into her bed, so did he rape them or didn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cheap21 Posted July 13, 2014 Members Share Posted July 13, 2014 I considered what Ridge did rape. She was drugged up and lay there almost unresponsive. He mounted her and had his way with a woman that was pretty much unconscious. The sex was very one-way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cassadine1991 Posted July 13, 2014 Author Members Share Posted July 13, 2014 What about what happened with Paul and Christine those years ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NothinButAttitude Posted July 13, 2014 Members Share Posted July 13, 2014 Y'all gonna stop coming for my Roger/Holly! Roger and Holly were HAWT! I'm still pissed that Roger and Holly didn't get the proper send off and P&G/MADD fired MZ after he was diagnosed with ALS. I consider that rape because didn't Christine try and resist him? I felt that this too has been swept underneath the rug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ~bl~ Posted July 13, 2014 Members Share Posted July 13, 2014 What about Malcolm and Dru on Y&R? To me that was the same thing as what Ridge did except Ridge had slept with both Caroline and Brooke prior to that incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeeeDee Posted July 13, 2014 Members Share Posted July 13, 2014 Malcolm raped Drucilla. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members amybrickwallace Posted July 14, 2014 Members Share Posted July 14, 2014 Getting back to SB - yes, all the Carnation Killer's victims were raped and then strangled in late 1984/early 1985. I think the only one who survived without being sexually assaulted was Eden (who wasn't raped until late summer/early fall 1988). I think she managed to survive by playing possum. Thanks also for bringing up Gina and Summer. I'd forgotten about them but you are absolutely right. That makes three pairs of sisters on SB that had been raped - Eden and Kelly Capwell, Gina and Summer Blake, and Mary and Christie Duvall. Sickening, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members robbwolff Posted July 14, 2014 Members Share Posted July 14, 2014 And Summer had been raped twice -- by her boyfriend Hank and then Peter Flint. Frankly, I gave up on Santa Barbara because of all the rapes. Most of the rapes happened within a few years and under the Dobsons' pens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members titan1978 Posted July 14, 2014 Members Share Posted July 14, 2014 I know the show was a critical darling and had a unique style, but all those rapes on SB sound awful. Was there a female character on the front burner on that show during its run that was not raped? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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