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It is huge and significant, but hurting somebody so bad because you couldn't hurt them so bad is definitely not the most unforgivable way to hurt somebody.

A child's death is hard to recover from. On top of that, Jesse didn't give Angie the chance to hold her baby, and to say goodbye to her baby and it's going to kill them in a way but they IMO can recover. I do think the road will be that more difficult if they lose this baby too and I hope they don't. Not to Frankie's unspoken of son or Maya.

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I always get caught up in what I would really like to see in stories like this that I tend to forget that what I would like to see normally isn't what's going to happen. But anyway, I think I said it in the spoiler thread, this storyline could really work for me if they truly took the time to slowly tell it and let every single emotion run out. When the truth comes out, I don't want to just see Angie and Frankie and everybody else beating up on Jesse. We're here with him now, we know that this isn't a malicious act done to torture his whole family. We know where he's coming from, so when the sh!t hits the fans, I want to be there with him then as well, when he's forced to deal with the consequences of such a rash, impossible decision. I don't ever ever want to feel hatred toward him in this story, and as long as they can keep it that way -- as they have in the last two episodes -- I'm taking the ride with them.

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Greenlee to Kendall: "You just seem like you. I havent seen this Kendall in a long time. Did Dr. Castillo do this?"

YES! Thats exactly what Ive been saying. Kendall finally feels like Kendall and she's changed for the better since Griffin entered her picture. Im glad someone else is notcing it

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This isn't like Babe, waving Miranda at Bianca and making her "godmother" to her own daughter, who she's mourning. This isn't Jesse wanting Angie to have a baby, so he stole her one. This is Jesse acting on gut wrenching emotions. On knowing his wife gave up her eye sight for their daughter. This is Jesse knowing that losing Ellie is going to break something Angie, and wanting to do anything but let that happen.

I get it. I feel it. I understand it. I know why he did it. I know he's wrong; he knows he's wrong. But he acted first, and thought later, that's really all this boils down to. He seemed overwhelmed and like he didn't know what he'd actually done at the hospital. Like it was all just starting to hit home.

I expect this to break them up. I expect Angie to be angry as hell, and feel betrayed. I expect her to leave him. I expect Frankie to hate him. At first. I expect those emotions. I want them. But, there's got to be moments where Angie understands, even if she doesn't want too. Where she feels it, gets it, understands it, but is so angry that he lied. And I want them to struggle to get through it. I think they will.

I haven't liked them since their return. I heard all these things about "Angie and Jesse" and I never really got it. Until this last week or so. I want to ride this out with them; and I want them to be happy...whatever that will mean when this is all said and done. :)

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The reason is that a babyswitch is actually dramatic and soapy and drives storylines.

I don't want to sound cold but I don't find two people grieving over a dead child to be very interesting just like I don't find it very interesting watching couples make out and gush over how happy they are.

The Jangie storyline right now is keeping me glued to the screen and I was two seconds away from giving up AMC completely before this storyline.

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I know, I know...I try to have hope. I don't know why I do, but I try. I know that the mere second -- the second!! -- this steps into over-the-top/cartoonish territory, I'm gonna hate the story. But I just want to enjoy this for time being, for this short while, for as long as I can. I just want a soap to tell a whole, complete story.

David/Anna and Leora...

I get that it's all a matter of personal preference, and I respect that, but I can't see how a couple grieving over a dead child isn't dramatic and soapy and doesn't drive storylines. Angie and Jesse could break up simply on the strength of grieving over their deceased daughter. Frankie and Randi could break up over that. Frankie and Randi could expect their own child, and Jesse and/or Angie can grow resentful of that. I'm not going to lie and say that there's a huge number of stories that can come out of that, but there are definitely some interesting alternatives.

The only reason why I would choose this story over the alternatives is because A, AMC is in a place right now where it needs to do something to stick around (I hate it, but it's true, I hate what they have to do to get attention, but...ugh...whatever, I just hate it) and B, if this story is told the right way (i.e., the way it most likely won't be told), it ensures tons of screen time for Debbi and Nelli, as well as Cornelius, JR, and hopefully more returns from Shannon. Denise...hang in there, girl.

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This is comparable to Babe. If anything Babe, at elast was a victim in the beginning as her child was taken from her and she didnt have any idea till a month later. The reason she kept the child was bc she didnt want to break JRs heart bc she saw him love and grow attached to that child. She didnt want to tear him up by telling him his child was dead. Isnt that why Jesse is doing what he is doing? They mght rationalize their reasons, but its still wrong, nonetheless. Jesse's role here is a combination of the ones Babe, Paul and Krystal took in the last switch. He has the same rationale as Babe, he initiated the switch like Paul and he will do what is necesary to ensure no one finds out like Krystal.

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If that were the case one half of ALL supercouples would be switching babies out of LOVE.

And babyswitches don't go away. Ever.

Yeah cause what would be human or relatable about THAT?

It's not like that doesn't happen in every day life or that real human emotions without sensationalistic garbage could be remotely interesting even though it's largely what the genre was built on.

Those two things are nowhere near comparable.

Yeah right.

This is all about making Jesse (and Darnell) "pay" & the constant character assassination of minority male characters & actors.

Oh well AMC will be cancelled soon enough. :lol:

And that's where you went wrong.

There's a reason AMC is about to be cancelled & it isn't OJ.

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and one half of most supercouples do worse than what I'm seeing Jesse doing.

It's not an honorable act what Jesse's doing but he's doing it out of love.

Like I said, maybe I'm cold but two people mourning a child only goes so far and it would've certainly kept Jesse and Angie on the backburner and then once every three weeks we would remember they lost a child.

I think they are because a couple talking about the same thing or doing the same thing over and over again just doesn't drive storylines or is very interesting to ME.

Jesse didn't rip that baby out of the Chandler maids womb and give it Angie. I fail to see how this is character assasination of Jesse. Jesse, the chief of police taking orders from Ryan and bending the law for the hell of it was character assasination, not this. IMO this storyline is giving Jesse his humanity back instead of the caricature chief Wiggum act he's been doing for the last 2 years.

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But they're WHITE which makes ALL the difference.

Define "so far" cause fans are CONSTANTLY whining about realistic stories that they can relate to & when a soap has two capable (not to mention legendary) actors who can deliver those kind of human stories the genre was built what do they give them?

Babies in Happy Meal Boxes.

There's a huge difference in characters repeating dialogue in lieu of a story & characters dealing with the repercussions of a realistic story so again not comparable.

So?

As xtr already said the end result of the story is Jesse being "punished" when his family & friends learn the truth about Ellie.

No a dead baby, a grieving wife & broken family isn't enough.

No he has to PAY.

Like Tad & Ryan & David & JR & Scott.

Oh Wait.

Yet viewers were all too eager to accept THAT & use it as convenient ammo when Saint David's honor needed defending or it was time to question Darnell's acting.

Giving Jesse his humanity back?

In 6 months (if AMC is even still on) this will be one more debacle added to the pile of Jesse Is Evil & Must Be Punished stories pushed by AMC & happily accepted by the fans.

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