Beverly Archer was such a great addition to the show.

1 minute ago, Khan said:

Beverly Archer was such a great addition to the show.

It's so strange Shirley as it turned out was married to wealthy industrialist Gene Desmond (played by the late Christopher Allport)  who hired Michael to be the Desmond Industries lawyer, which Michael even trying to get Christine to join him at Desmond to Paul's chagrin  and we where promised an introduction to the extended Desmond family along with a possible Patty reintroduction but by the summer of 2000 the entire story was completely dropped altogether. 

2 hours ago, Khan said:

Beverly Archer was such a great addition to the show.

Shirley was soooo much fun!!! Those were the days

4 hours ago, soapfan770 said:

It's so strange Shirley as it turned out was married to wealthy industrialist Gene Desmond (played by the late Christopher Allport)  who hired Michael to be the Desmond Industries lawyer, which Michael even trying to get Christine to join him at Desmond to Paul's chagrin  and we where promised an introduction to the extended Desmond family along with a possible Patty reintroduction but by the summer of 2000 the entire story was completely dropped altogether. 

I did not know about this. Too bad that never came to fruition. 

It really seems like they've spent the better part of 30 years trying to make Ashley work. I know she's a successful part of the Abbott family but she doesn't ever seem to get an A-story that's actually about her. She's had all these love interests and the only one that's stuck as some great love for her is Victor. The rest were sort of duds.

15 minutes ago, Darn said:

It really seems like they've spent the better part of 30 years trying to make Ashley work. I know she's a successful part of the Abbott family but she doesn't ever seem to get an A-story that's actually about her. She's had all these love interests and the only one that's stuck as some great love for her is Victor. The rest were sort of duds.

Agree.  Victor and Ashley have (or had) way more story potential together, as a couple, than do Victor and Nikki, who have been played out for the longest time; and if Y&R weren't always so damn fixated on Victor and Nikki, they'd realize that, too.

3 minutes ago, Khan said:

Agree.  Victor and Ashley have (or had) way more story potential together, as a couple, than do Victor and Nikki, who have been played out for the longest time; and if Y&R weren't always so damn fixated on Victor and Nikki, they'd realize that, too.

Didn't they remarry for about a year a decade ago? It's a shame they didn't do more with that (or with Nikki remarrying Jack) other than having Adam gaslight Ashley. At this point Victor and Nikki are so old they'd look ridiculous getting divorced again. Just keep those co-dependent fools together imo.

4 minutes ago, Darn said:

At this point Victor and Nikki are so old they'd look ridiculous getting divorced again. Just keep those co-dependent fools together imo.

True dat, lol.

I think part of the reason Ashley has struggled to work is partly due to Eileen Davidson.

Not a slam at all, but she's such a strong actress that most of her attempted pairings from 1982 to 1985 didn't work because she over powered them.  Only actor strong enough to act opposite her was Eric Braeden.

Sadly the only way to make that work was to diminish her character.  I will say I did like her marriage to Dr Steve..it wasn't passionate..but the two had a good rapport.

Now when Brenda Epperson took over,she made Ashley into more of a heroine.  And she had great chemistry with Don Diamont.  If Bill Bell was a plot driven writer, he would have gone full blown ahead with a Traci/Ashley/Brad triangle in 1990..but he knew it was in character for Ashley to step aside if Traci expressed interest in Brad again.

And I will say Ashley 1st marriage to Victor was interesting..and oddly she was written as being strong minded and not letting Victor push her around.  And she filed for divorce in 1992 when he expressed feelings for Nikki again. 

Sadly, the Blade story could have worked had a different actor played Blade.  Mari Jo vs Ashley was fun.

And Shari's Ashley...well...she was too harsh.  She didn't have the sarcasm of the other actresses..and was angry all the time.

23 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

I think part of the reason Ashley has struggled to work is partly due to Eileen Davidson.

Not a slam at all, but she's such a strong actress that most of her attempted pairings from 1982 to 1985 didn't work because she over powered them.  Only actor strong enough to act opposite her was Eric Braeden.

Sadly the only way to make that work was to diminish her character. 

Couldn't agree more.  The only (male) actors in the 1980s who could keep up with Eileen Davidson on the show were Terry Lester and Eric Braeden.  Bell likely made a mistake giving Nikki a terminal illness, as that necessitated having Ashley bow-out of the triangle a bit prematurely.   

1 hour ago, Soaplovers said:

I think part of the reason Ashley has struggled to work is partly due to Eileen Davidson.

Not a slam at all, but she's such a strong actress that most of her attempted pairings from 1982 to 1985 didn't work because she over powered them.  Only actor strong enough to act opposite her was Eric Braeden.

Sadly the only way to make that work was to diminish her character.  I will say I did like her marriage to Dr Steve..it wasn't passionate..but the two had a good rapport.

Now when Brenda Epperson took over,she made Ashley into more of a heroine.  And she had great chemistry with Don Diamont.  If Bill Bell was a plot driven writer, he would have gone full blown ahead with a Traci/Ashley/Brad triangle in 1990..but he knew it was in character for Ashley to step aside if Traci expressed interest in Brad again.

And I will say Ashley 1st marriage to Victor was interesting..and oddly she was written as being strong minded and not letting Victor push her around.  And she filed for divorce in 1992 when he expressed feelings for Nikki again. 

Sadly, the Blade story could have worked had a different actor played Blade.  Mari Jo vs Ashley was fun.

And Shari's Ashley...well...she was too harsh.  She didn't have the sarcasm of the other actresses..and was angry all the time.

I think this says more about the men on canvas at that time, as I don't think this was as much an issue when Eileen returned. I will also say Brian Matthews and Eileen worked, just not long term. Eric and Eileen had a deeper chemistry you could build long term story around.

In terms of Ashley and Victor. Bell always wrote that story from Ashley's point of view. She wore the pants from the beginning. I know people think she demured to him, but she didn't. So Brenda's Ashley being assertive should not be a surprise, totally in character. Eileen's Ashley always called the shots in that relationship in her first run (the second run I never felt Alden or Smith ever knew how to write Ashley)

In terms of Brad and Ashley, what is interesting is at the time Brad inherited everything from Cassandra, Don turned from a boy into a man and so when Eileen came back that pairing worked. 

I think Brad and Ashley should have been end game but Alden/Smith fucked that up royally. Brad should and would have never cheated on her. I will never believe that Olivia, of all people, after eveything she went through with Nathan, would have an affair with Brad. It was trashy and uneccessary. I also will never buy that Ashley would steal Victor's sperm to have his baby. 

4 hours ago, Darn said:

It really seems like they've spent the better part of 30 years trying to make Ashley work. I know she's a successful part of the Abbott family but she doesn't ever seem to get an A-story that's actually about her. She's had all these love interests and the only one that's stuck as some great love for her is Victor. The rest were sort of duds.

I partly agree. I think Bell spent 82 - 85 figuring Ashley out. 85 - 88 she had A story as part of the Newman/Abbott quad. 89 - 90 she was rested with Brenda's arrival. 90 - 92 she had A story again with her marriage to Victor. 93 - 95 She had A story that just wasn't very good. Blade/Michael Tylo didn't work. 96 - 99 Shari was miscast and Bell's writing wasn't great. 99 and beyond Alden and Smith and everyone else wrote Ashley mostly out of character. Not completely but she was never the same outside of Eileen's portrayal and even that wasn't quite the same (she seemed angry all the time)

As above both Brenda Epperson and Eileen had great chem with Don. That should have been end game. 

16 minutes ago, will81 said:

I think Brad and Ashley should have been end game but Alden/Smith fucked that up royally. Brad should and would have never cheated on her. I will never believe that Olivia, of all people, after eveything she went through with Nathan, would have an affair with Brad. It was trashy and uneccessary. I also will never buy that Ashley would steal Victor's sperm to have his baby. 

The Brad/Ashley pairing was bungled-up in about every possible way, beginning with the Sperm Theft and ending with the Reliquary, lol.  And it's a shame, because Diamont and Davidson had chemistry, both as characters who'd known each for a long time and as actors who'd worked together for many years.  The writers went to great lengths to show the relationship deepening between Brad & Ashley, and then flushed it away in no time flat.  

25 minutes ago, Broderick said:

The Brad/Ashley pairing was bungled-up in about every possible way, beginning with the Sperm Theft and ending with the Reliquary, lol.  And it's a shame, because Diamont and Davidson had chemistry, both as characters who'd known each for a long time and as actors who'd worked together for many years.  The writers went to great lengths to show the relationship deepening between Brad & Ashley, and then flushed it away in no time flat.  

I think Victor hanging around was another big problem. Once Victor and Ashley divorced that should have been it and during the rest of Bell's tenure it was. Even when Eileen came back, they had a mutual admiration society going on and nothing more, which is why her IVF story was so jarring (also it being out fo character). Eileen did not play Ashley as being under Victor's thumb initially, but she was slowly being written that way and I hated it. That pairing should have remained a friendship and nothing more. If they wanted Ashley to have Vic's baby, it should have been an accidental switch. 

With Ash and Brad, during their marriage they had plenty of drama to deal with without the need for Vic and Olivia to make matters worse. 

 

And also Eileen did struggle to play Ashley when she came back in 1999.  She was stuck in a story and coupling that had started when Shari was still playing Ashley (marriage to Cole, and another step brother with a stolen painting).  She and J Eddie Peck had no chemistry..and she was still shaking off the Kristen Dimera character.

By the time, Eileen has settled back into playing Ashley...the writing declined for the character.

And I think Bell had written the Ashley and Victor marriage as a closure of sorts.  She and Victor were free to be together..and both realized their time had passed...plus when he admitted he still loved Nikki...Ashley knew history would keep repeating and divorced him.  

 

2 hours ago, will81 said:

I think Victor hanging around was another big problem. Once Victor and Ashley divorced that should have been it and during the rest of Bell's tenure it was. Even when Eileen came back, they had a mutual admiration society going on and nothing more, which is why her IVF story was so jarring (also it being out fo character). Eileen did not play Ashley as being under Victor's thumb initially, but she was slowly being written that way and I hated it. That pairing should have remained a friendship and nothing more. If they wanted Ashley to have Vic's baby, it should have been an accidental switch.

 

Oh, I agree.  If Miss Alden was just DETERMINED to drench the entire cast with Victor's semen, it would've made more sense (from a dramatic standpoint) to have Ashley, as a single woman, decide on the IVF and accidentally end up with Victor's dribble, instead of choosing his purposefully, and then have Brad -- as Ashley's husband -- SUSPECT that she'd done it intentionally because of some unresolved desire to have Victor's baby.  But it seemed Alden put very little thought into the storyline from the onset, and then Jack Smith came along and exacerbated something that was already terrible by dragging Olivia into the squalor.