That's the only other character I could come up with as well. I don't see Rick Ryan having the impact. He was a minor character they'd have had to unearth from the '70's (aside from a brief visit in the 80's to explain away Sabrina having survived), with no real ties to the canvas other than Barbara (who hadn't mentioned him) and Kim.

Scott was briefly involved with Lucinda, was Lisa's son, Tom's brother, and had a past with Carly (and Rosanna). Plus, while his past was defined, it wasn't as (for lack of a better word) restrictive. It might've made a lot more sense for Barbara to be attracted to someone didn't know as well, as opposed to Craig, who'd she'd co-existed with in Oakdale for at least 10 years without noticing. (and let's be real, Barb cut through Oakdale's male population like a hot knife through butter in the '80's).

Having just dumped Michael Wood's Alec Wallace, you would've thought they'd seek to layer their gray characters a little more. Instead, HB's Craig seems like a carbon copy rather than an upgrade. Which maybe isn't suprising, since they originally wanted to bring a new guy in the fall of '99, and it got pushed back due to Maura's pregnancy.

 

Edited June 9, 20232 yr by P.J.

On 6/8/2023 at 6:57 AM, DRW50 said:

I have a vague memory of this being up before but I can't find it now and that may be on how samey the Earl Mitchell death story from around this point was. Posting in case it's new to you.

@DramatistDreamer @slick jones @soapfan770 @Mitch64 @Vee @victoria foxton @vetsoapfan @Soapsuds @P.J. @Paul Raven @Khan @DeliaIrisFan @kalbir @Soaplovers @TVFAN1144 @Sapounopera

 

Thanks for sharing @DRW50!

I was wondering about the rest of Iva’s biological family, it seems they only popped up for this story before going back into the woodwork. I find Elizabeth/Liz to be interesting I wonder why the show didn’t do more with her. Lenore and the kids if I recall right would still occasionally appear through 1990 before disappearing until their brief 1995 reappearance. 
 

I too was surprised about how well Paul handled the homophobia and defending Andy as well. It’s a realistic and well written scene as brief as it was. 
 

As for Earl Mitchell, eh this whole thing just ends on a whimper in comparison to the rest of the Stenbeck story and I recall one poster years ago commenting Earl was “just another dead husband” for Lisa to deal with. 

Considering how huge Marland's canvas was at the time, I don't think there was any room for Iva's bio family. But, Marland would've always kept them in his back pocket, to use if/when he needed someone.

2 hours ago, Khan said:

Except, I wouldn't have wanted for Rick to be so two-dimensional.  I would've wanted an actor who could put SOME emotional layers into that character so that he wouldn't come across simply as this out-and-out bastard who was beyond redemption or empathy.

Listen, I would have watched more if that regime was capable of layering their characters but I was thinking of the Goutman regime and tempered my expectations to be very limited. I Don think that gaggle of writers knew how to write layered characters. I mean, look what they did to Barbara in that courtroom scene where she jumps out of a window.

1 hour ago, P.J. said:

Considering how huge Marland's canvas was at the time, I don't think there was any room for Iva's bio family. But, Marland would've always kept them in his back pocket, to use if/when he needed someone.

That's a good point, although a part of me thinks if we were going to have them introduced, I wish they'd served more of a value. Maybe have Iva turn to them again during the Aaron storyline.

5 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

I Don think that gaggle of writers knew how to write layered characters. I mean, look what they did to Barbara in that courtroom scene where she jumps out of a window.

Oh, you are so not kidding, @DramatistDreamer, lol!  That scene had to be the lowest moment I've ever experienced in all my years of watching ATWT.  Lower than anything Stephen Black and Henry Stern could've done and did during their brief tenure as HW's for the show.

4 hours ago, DRW50 said:

That's a good point, although a part of me thinks if we were going to have them introduced, I wish they'd served more of a value. Maybe have Iva turn to them again during the Aaron storyline.

Do I have some vague recollection of Liz sleeping with....Tonio?  Ah...sometimes incidental characters just need to stay incidental. No need for everyone under the sun to move to tiny Oakdale. 

14 minutes ago, P.J. said:

Do I have some vague recollection of Liz sleeping with....Tonio?  Ah...sometimes incidental characters just need to stay incidental. No need for everyone under the sun to move to tiny Oakdale. 

I believe you're right.

I definitely don't think they would have needed to move to Oakdale, but Iva going back and forth the way so many ATWT characters did under Marland and up to 94 or 95 could have made sense. And provided some drama for Ellie and Kirk too. 

(didn't they also try to pair her father with Emma briefly - one of many Emma pairings that just felt very plot dictated)

36 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I believe you're right.

I definitely don't think they would have needed to move to Oakdale, but Iva going back and forth the way so many ATWT characters did under Marland and up to 94 or 95 could have made sense. And provided some drama for Ellie and Kirk too. 

(didn't they also try to pair her father with Emma briefly - one of many Emma pairings that just felt very plot dictated)

You don't remember the Great Appliance War between Jarrod and Cal? They fought over who could buy her a stove. Then someone bought her a new refrigerator. I think she stopped them from buying her a dishwasher. Emma didn't put up with such nonsense. LOL. 

5 minutes ago, P.J. said:

You don't remember the Great Appliance War between Jarrod and Cal? They fought over who could buy her a stove. Then someone bought her a new refrigerator. I think she stopped them from buying her a dishwasher. Emma didn't put up with such nonsense. LOL. 

I remember Cal's part, for sure, although I don't remember why she and Cal split (maybe Lucinda?). I'm surprised they never gave Emma more of a long-term partner in order to clash with her macho sons...by the time she was paired with Ned Simon, the family was too spread out and weakened to care.

Even though the actor looked a bit older than the recast, I could see the first actor who played Jarrod (Lindsay Frost’s dad irl) having a sweet chemistry with Kathleen Widdoes. Also, if Warren Frost was still in the role, I sincerely doubt we would have gotten a ‘¿Quien es mas macho?’ type of storyline between Cal and Jarrod. Then again, that Snyder circle already seemed way too incestuous and insular for my liking, so it’s probably for the best to have averted a long term romance between Emma and Jarrod.

@DRW50  I don't really recall. I can't recall Lucinda and Cal ever having a thing. John broke Emma's heart when he showed up married to Lucinda. 

My guess is that Emma couldn't see herself fitting into Cal's world. She didn't want to leave the farm, she wouldn't have been comfortable splitting her time between Waco and Oakdale, and Cal didn't want to be Gentleman Farmer living in a virtual hotel with only one bathroom. (lol)

Edited June 10, 20232 yr by P.J.

Just now, P.J. said:

@DRW50  I don't really recall. I can't recall Lucinda and Cal ever having a thing. John broke Emma's heart when he showed up married to Lucinda. 

My guess is that Emma couldn't see herself fitting into Cal's world. She didn't want to leave the farm, she wouldn't have been comfortable splitting her time between Waco and Oakdale, and Cal didn't want to be Gentleman Farmer living in a virtual hotel with only one bathroom. (lol)

It's all a blur to me but for some reason I thought he was briefly involved with Lucinda around the time she and John were splitting up for good. I know she also had some encounters with the pilot who helped her find Sierra in '89.

Now that you mention it I do think his corporate life was a bigger factor in their split.

3 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Even though the actor looked a bit older than the recast, I could see the first actor who played Jarrod (Lindsay Frost’s dad irl) having a sweet chemistry with Kathleen Widdoes. Also, if Warren Frost was still in the role, I sincerely doubt we would have gotten a ‘¿Quien es mas macho?’ type of storyline between Cal and Jarrod. Then again, that Snyder circle already seemed way too incestuous and insular for my liking, so it’s probably for the best to have averted a long term romance between Emma and Jarrod.

I'd forgotten until now that Warren Frost went on to play a strong support part on Twin Peaks. I wonder if that's one of the reasons he left ATWT. 

The whole mother/daughter tension over a man was something they tried with Emma and Iva regarding John, but something about it always felt wrong to me.

1 hour ago, P.J. said:

Do I have some vague recollection of Liz sleeping with....Tonio?  Ah...sometimes incidental characters just need to stay incidental. No need for everyone under the sun to move to tiny Oakdale. 

Liz was such a shrew, lol. Tonio was good for a laugh on occasion, like when Lucinda would berate him for some perceived wrong. That time she scolded him for skulking about the office trying to eavesdrop.

59 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

It's all a blur to me but for some reason I thought he was briefly involved with Lucinda around the time she and John were splitting up for good. I know she also had some encounters with the pilot who helped her find Sierra in '89.

Now that you mention it I do think his corporate life was a bigger factor in their split.

I'd forgotten until now that Warren Frost went on to play a strong support part on Twin Peaks. I wonder if that's one of the reasons he left ATWT. 

The whole mother/daughter tension over a man was something they tried with Emma and Iva regarding John, but something about it always felt wrong to me.

I remember the pilot. He was a crusty SOB. LOL

Yeah, the Emma/Iva drama over John was a bridge too far.  Emma had no problem ripping into her kids over bad behavior, but while that romance was ill-advised, it was years after Emma had been involved with him.

@DramatistDreamer that was the other problem with Liz becoming a regular. She was a full-on shrew with zero redeeming qualities. There was no reason for Iva to want that in her life. LOL She already had a narcissistic teen daughter who she had to bow and scrape to.

Edited June 10, 20232 yr by P.J.