As The World Turns Discussion Thread

[Soapsuds]

The stories went downhill once Marland passed. The writers had no clue what they were doing. The show's cancellation notice was in 93 when Marland left the show.

[cassadine1991]

Speaking of Nikki Munson, didn't Kelly Monaco audition for the role back in 2003?

[NothinButAttitude]

I heard she did. I wonder if she was cast in the role if she would've last longer than the actress that eventually did acquire the role. 

[Paul Raven]

[DramatistDreamer]

Marland was well trusted as showrunner (with good reason) but when it comes to any showrunner of a continuing series, it is a mistake not to know storyline projections for the next year, even the most competent and trusted ones.  I know that every writer leaves room to adjust, adapt and improvise and Marland was known for being such a writer, who improvised when necessary but in retrospect, so you can't know every little specificity of every scene, storyline and character but it seemed ill advised to not know, in advance, where things were headed with these characters and their storylines over the long term.

I also never understood why soaps didn't have a better apprenticeship system where young and aspiring soap writers couldn't learn how to mimic the styles of the master headwriters, the way the master painters had/have apprentices who learn to reproduce their brushstrokes and styles so that, if the master painter, for any reason couldn't complete a certain work, his apprentices could pick up the slack and complete the painting.  Most times, no one was the wiser.

In one of my writing classes, we had to do that.  Pick a writer and write an original work in the style of that particular writer.  It's a challenge but certainly possible.

Edited December 5, 2015 by DramatistDreamer

[DRW50]

I think Marland did leave outlines for a fair amount of time - at least through the last months of 1993. The Kasnoffs were his idea and Mike came around in early 1994.

[DramatistDreamer]

but you could still notice the drastic change when the new regime or writers took over.  I was just wondering what if they had trained a core of talent to replicate his style the way the master painters and master builders had done with their work?  Character consistency and storyline continuity could have lasted at least a decade after Marland's passing.

[Khan]

Not necessarily.  Marland might have brought more consistency to ATWT, but that was because CBS and P&G did not interfere.  Once he was gone, so was that guarantee, IMO.

[DramatistDreamer]

I guess it's all just speculation anyway but just wondering that if a core group of writers were able to demonstrate that ability perhaps the network/producer intervention might have been minimal instead of the hatchet job we ended up getting.  I would've preferred taking that chance (lol).

[DRW50]

There were a number of things by the end of 1993 I don't think he would have done (like firing Lisa Brown and Anne Sward), but to me the real changes to ATWT didn't happen until early/mid-94, when they obviously had no idea where to go or what to do (bringing Shannon back for a sour triangle and that silly "adventure" to find Scott, for instance). I think he was a very unique writer and those under him were good at working under him but not able to continue his type of canvas. And even then it still sort of felt like his ATWT in its best moments (the John/Lisa lawsuit), but Caso wasn't a strong enough producer to have kept it good when it should have been good (1994, the period when so many viewers were leaving daytime). 

 

I think it was Valente who truly gutted the show.

[Paul Raven]

Well,I think Valente was right in realizing that it was impossible to replicate Marland's ATWT,especially with such a huge cast to contend with,but the reign of Stern and Black was such a contrast that viewers were  turned off.

[NothinButAttitude]

I wanted to find a nice X-Mas episode I haven't seen & thanks to @DRW50, I did. 

 

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Who is this Richard character? Was he obsessed with Barbara? Is he some lackey of James coming to get revenge on Babs and Gunnar? Anyways, I found it hilarious when Gunnar came in and socked Richard in the stomach. Talk about over the top acting. 

 

Marisa Tomei still looks the same now as she did then. I found it honorable of Frannie to still be cordial to Marcy despite reading that she nearly ruined Bob with rape allegations. 

 

I like the Stewart clan but this X-mas episode felt hollow without Nancy and the Hughes being at the center. 

 

Lord! This Alice woman is brutal!  I was cracking up over here telling that little boy that what he was saying is dumb. I did think it was cute that Tom and Margo helped her find a new job though. It's moments like this that make me miss this show. 

 

Was that Annie with Dee with that one scene? Was she talking about Jeff? Was this around the time he was addicted? 

 

 

[victoria foxton]

A cool Pre Christmas treat early 80's ATWT. What little i saw of Cricket and Ernie i liked. The story with Richard and Barbara looks awful. It's so strange not seeing the Hughes as the nexus of Oakdale. I liked this Frannie, i also liked Alice and her story. I liked the sense of community and family shown in this episode. Sadly soaps used to go all out for Christmas. I did like the prominent role the Stewart family had during this time. Does anyone know how the Richard/Barbara story ends? I loved the interaction between everyone at the Stewart's Christmas party. I love the friendships between Frannie, Marcy and Kirk. John and Karen had a lot chemistry i wish there was more of them on you tube. A decent and likable Christmas episode the only thing i didn't like was the Richard story.

[Paul Raven]

Here's what was happening around the time of the Xmas episode to put things in perspective

Learning their marriage has been annulled, Whit decides to tell everyone Charmaine is not his sister but his former wife. Paul accuses Gunnar of murdering his father, causing Barbara to take the child to a psychiatrist. On TV, John and Karen expose James as a fraud, stating Gunnar is the real Stenbeck heir with Dusty in line for inheritance. Gunnar decides to give money to John to do research on the heart disease that killed Burke. Steve proves to Whit that Craig stole one of the coins used to frame Steve. David finds empty pill bottle and insists Jeff have blood test. David is called away on emergency; Jeff starts to change label on sample as David returns. Craig tells Ernie Cricket is pregnant.

 

Caught by David trying to change blood samples, Jeff runs off. Jeff winds up on Skid Row and buys some methedrine to shoot into vein, but stops when a policeman comes on scene. Jeff goes to sleazy motel and tries to go cold turkey. Whit believes Steve's charge that Craig double-crossed Whit with coin theft. Whit fires Craig and Craig vows to get even. Margo invites Bob and female judge Sara Compton for dinner. First Bob feels uncomfortable because on his first date with Sara she came on to him, but the two enjoy each other's company and laugh off their first date. Arriving in Oakdale, Ernie asks Cricket to marry him. Samantha finds Cory and now has information to free her mother. Learning Craig embezzled from her, Diana insists on his interest in nightclub or she'll go to police.

 

Craig tracks down graphologist who agrees to modify Betsy's letter to Steve. In the new letter, Betsy tells Steve she loves Craig and regrets having betrayed him. Bob and David tell Annie that Jeff should go to a treatment center after he's released from the hospital. Jeff nearly becomes violent at the thought of going to detox center and persuades Annie to let him come home. Steve agrees to tend bar at Anemone on temporary basis. Craig has a dream in which Betsy leaves him and he suffers fall. Craig later goes to therapist, saying that he needs information on novel he's writing. Following car trouble, Diana spends night on Steve's couch. When Betsy arrives to talk with Steve, Diana, wearing Steve's nightshirt, opens the door and makes it look as though she and Steve went to bed together.

 

Lisa and Barbara are impressed by a man named Richard, who claims his wealthy dad wants to open a boutique. Steve cries in Diana's arms, saying he's lost Betsy forever. Craig asks stuntman to teach him to take fall without getting injured. Diana tells Brian she intends to marry Steve. Brian has negative response, saying Steve isn't good enough for her, Margo and Tom want to start family. Unable to find job, John physically attacks Bob when he won't give him a reference. Tom and Margo fight about their fathers' disagreement. Lisa is furious when Whit writes damaging article about Jeff’s drug abuse.

Craig feigns paralysis. Betsy refuses Lyla's request that she leave Craig. Annie learns that Jeff has been skipping his psychiatric appointments, but balks at David's suggestion that she leave him. Richard, foiled in his attempts to be with Barbara, continues to stare at her from the apartment across the way. Barbara receives flowers from an anonymous admirer.

 

Betsy will not listen to Kim's suggestion that she leave Craig. Craig checks out of hospital against doctor's advice. Frannie’s friend, Marcy Thompson fantasizes about Bob kissing her and promising eternal love. Frank Andropoulos, Nick and Steve’s cousin, is interested in Lila. Ariel tells Whit she knows he's a bigamist and gets him to offer job in return for keeping mouth shut. Richard breaks into Gunnar's hotel room and steals camera. Annie leaves Jeff but promises to return if he gets help. Lisa is stunned when she's the only one dressed formally for her party. Everyone else is in punk attire thanks to Ariel. As the guests are all assembled, Lisa asks them to meet the new advice columnist for the newspaper and both Ariel and Kim stand. Whit's newspaper runs headline accusing Bob of sexually attacking Marcy in hospital.

 

Gunnar is stunned when Richard suggests Gunnar stop seeing Paul. Gunnar realizes Richard isn't who he claims to be. Frank is falling for Lyla. Marcy’s mother, Peggy let her live with her boyfriend. Alice gets job at hospital working with children. Cricket and Ernie announce engagement. At treatment center, Jeff refuses to see Annie. Bob is cleared of all charges in molestation of Marcy.

 

After meeting John on train, Richard is under impression John wants Bob murdered. Richard, now believing he has airtight alibi, shoots Bob. Tom and Margo find the wounded Bob and rush him to hospital. John is only doctor at hospital available, due to emergency. Tom is against John operating, but Margo insists. Bob needs splenectomy and surgery reveals he may have nicked aorta. John is arrested for attempted murder. Maggie agrees to take Frank's legal case. Lyla is unaware that Frank is member of Andropoulos family. Jeff refuses to see Annie at clinic. Later he opens Christmas gift from her and starts to cry when he sees picture of Annie and the children.

Frannie is on strict diet. Jeff sees Karen and agrees to let her tell Annie he needs her. Richard gets job at pinball joint, claiming he is psychologist doing study on video arcades. John is reinstated at hospital with David voting against him and Bob abstaining. Barbara believes Richard has left town. John tells Det. Kevin Callahan about meeting Richard on train, but Kevin doesn't believe Richard exists. Maggie wants to adopt a child. Jake, an old flame of Diana's, wants to resume affair, but she refuses. Ernie and Cricket wed as she goes into labor. On way to hospital, Cricket gives birth to baby girl. Paul tells Gunnar he wants him to move back home.

 

Betsy is pinned under the beam loosened by Craig at the lakefront property. Steve gets Betsy out unharmed. Craig convinces Kim through Betsy that she should sell the lakefront property. Richard manages to exit hospital by posing as priest. Deciding to frame Karen for Bob's shooting, Richard places a bloodstained handkerchief in the Dixon house. John throws out the handkerchief but Richard retrieves it. Betsy considering going to bed with Craig in order to save her marriage, but Kim suggests she remain true to herself. Kirk tells Frannie that he loves her. Lyla agrees to reconcile with Frank even though he withheld information that he was Steve's cousin. Richard learns John's phone to be tapped.

 

Frank learns his life is in danger and cancels his trip to Montreal with Lyla, saying she's in danger when she's around him. Craig is furious when he learns Kim turned the lakefront property over to the Throwaway Kids group. Tom tells Margo that Callahan is setting a trap for John. Dusty loses many of his friends when their parents believe John shot Bob. Karen convinces Dusty that John saved Bob's life and didn't try to harm him. Richard tells John he wants him to kill Gunnar or Karen will be framed for Bob's shooting. Marcy applies for a job as Danielle's nurse but runs out when Betsy checks her references. Lyla walks in while Betsy is with Steve and calls her a tramp, although Betsy insists she and Steve have done nothing.

 

Karen is upset with John for talking to Gunnar about Dusty. Frannie saves Marcy from being arrested for shoplifting. John tells Richard he hates Gunnar but needs more time before killing Gunnar for him. Paul has a nightmare about a man wanting to take Barbara away. Bob is so fixated about his problems of working with John that he ignores Frannie's problems. Frannie is torn between attending Yale and staying in Oakdale to be with Kirk. Betsy sees Zack, who assures her her love for Steve is not wrong and she is not responsible for Craig's paralysis. Maggie considers artificial insemination. Lyla tells Craig she thinks he and Betsy should move to Boston.

 

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[cassadine1991]

What year was this?