On 10/22/2025 at 11:23 PM, Vee said:

Was the Fourth of July '85 Marland? I didn't know he was there that early, or am I misunderstanding? I'll have to check it out.

I think that might have been Susan Bedsow-Horgan, who I wish they would have lured back to ATWT as a HW after Marland's sudden passing.

As the World Turns HWs when Robert Calhoun was EP.

October-November 1984: Tom King and Millee Taggart

November 1984-February 1985: Cynthia Benjamin and Susan Bedsow Horgan

February-September 1985: Susan Bedsow Horgan

September 1985-October 1988: Douglas Marland

11 hours ago, Mitch64 said:

Thanks! I think soaps never really showed their elderly characters gradually failing...if they were they were shipped off camera. Sure they dealt with Bert's surgery, but she was still a firecracker and on it (and only 62 so hardly elderly) The way the show treated Don was really heartwarming and brought a sense of reality to a show ( I wish they had done a bit more and had Andy remark "Grand dad seemed out of it this morning"  and have Bob talk about aging being natural and not scary...) I know they did tried to do that with that gross guy they married Nancy off with.. but it just seemed to be one of Marland's depressing "relevant" storylines and not natural or organic like Don's was. 

I really liked Mac. The only uncertainty I have is I'm not entirely sure Nancy would have ever remarried. I can't remember if Helen Wagner ever spoke about that. 

23 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

The only uncertainty I have is I'm not entirely sure Nancy would have ever remarried. I can't remember if Helen Wagner ever spoke about that. 

I think she did, and I think she said the same thing as you: that she didn't believe Nancy would have remarried after losing Chris.  Of course, Douglas Marland could've told a story about how Nancy, reluctant to remarry after her husband's passing, flirts with the idea of co-habitating (sp?) Mac, but...., lol.

1 hour ago, Khan said:

I think she did, and I think she said the same thing as you: that she didn't believe Nancy would have remarried after losing Chris.  Of course, Douglas Marland could've told a story about how Nancy, reluctant to remarry after her husband's passing, flirts with the idea of co-habitating (sp?) Mac, but...., lol.

That could have been interesting. Nancy feeling tired of being alone, seeing herself as a burden to Bob and Kim, and considering moving in with Mac, but not wanting to marry him. It would have been a dilemma for her, and for her family.

I can see why Helen wouldn't rock the boat, as she'd already left the show once and may have known she might not be asked back a second time. 

 

I question the base theory that Helen would've preferred Nancy share a bed with a man, outside the sanctity of marriage, by not marrying Mac, and just shacking up.

I understand not disrespecting the memory of Chris, but they only vowed 'till death do they part.  And I think there's valid argument that Helen Wagner wanted to work, it was nice to have scenes other than being a supportive elder, and she wouldn't want Nancy catting around without at least a promise ring.

But, if you can find her saying the opposite, I'd be keen to read it.  I searched, but came up blank.

Edited October 25Oct 25 by j swift

WTF is wrong with you people? Can you not just enjoy a show? Seriously. Like...it's just a soap opera. That ran for over 50 years. What it would take to get y'all to stop complaining about the tiniest minute little details. Yes...I just found out a good friend had her husband leave her and her baby. So I'm taking out my aggression here. But, good God, people. Just watch what you like and let the rest go!!!

1 hour ago, j swift said:

I question the base theory that Helen would've preferred Nancy share a bed with a man, outside the sanctity of marriage, by not marrying Mac, and just shacking up.

Any implication on my part about Helen wanting Nancy to live with a man outside of marriage was unintended. All I questioned was how Helen felt about Nancy remarrying and the rest was my speculation on what could have been an interesting storyline. 

The bed part would be another interesting part of a potential story, as a number of older couples choose not to share a room and are together for other reasons like loneliness or comfort (or financial, although that wouldn't have been a factor in Nancy's case). 

Edited October 25Oct 25 by DRW50

Bro, we've been here for two decades and have talked many of these shows to death. You have had an account here for almost a decade and a serious portion of your posting history (until your recent, nonetheless highly passive-aggressive charm initiative) has been taken up with crashing out over posters and having meltdowns over them not liking the same elements of this old show you do.

It's an defunct soap opera with viewers who go back decades. The show itself has been off the air for 15 years. If you don't expect or want to read granular detail and highly subjective individual critique at this point, the problem is you.

6 hours ago, adrnyc said:

it's just a soap opera.

That phrase should be banned from the message board.  It is offensive to the entire genre.

12 hours ago, DRW50 said:

That could have been interesting. Nancy feeling tired of being alone, seeing herself as a burden to Bob and Kim, and considering moving in with Mac, but not wanting to marry him. It would have been a dilemma for her, and for her family.

Not to incite a certain poster with my thoughts but..Mac was gross to me( he looked like he reeked of ciggies) and Nancy was so classy. I know Marland said he wanted to show that romance continued on in older people but...I think Nancy written as Nancy should be (not the sweet grandmother Marland turned her into) would not want another man around, or would make his life hell with her demanding nature. At least show them adjusting to each other, Nancy having to deal that gross Mac is not Chris, and Mac knowing that Nancy is not Bernice...(because of course Mac would be married to a Bernice.)

I think the best tentpole was Bert..she didn't seem to ever want to get married (and after Bill could you blame her) and she had a full and interesting life, apart from supporting her family. The writers always made sure she had a job (as a volunteer and later as head of the Patient Advocates) and friends of her own. Which made that scene in the Bauer kitchen, where drops a dish and can't pick it up and feel helpless)  even more impactful. I know its part of the genre, but I wish soaps could show more people being happy single, or even just dating and not being single mindedly focused on Grand Love and marriage...soap characters would be exhausting to be friends with!

Edited October 25Oct 25 by Mitch64

I think that's why the Dobson's struggled with writing Nancy because the dna/make up of that character wasn't this warm and fussy matriarch that Bert was.  Even in Bert's more interfering days, the actress had such spirit and passion in her delivery that when she softened with age.. it was organic.

Nancy, on the other hand, was someone that kept things close to her vest and was slow to warm to people.   The initial conflict when the show debuted was her troubling relationship with her daughter Penny because of the belief that Nancy preferred her other daughter Susan to Penny.  Her behavior, which was driven by grief came across as preferring her deceased daughter over the daughter that was alive.

And I gathered Nancy/Chris came from different backgrounds with Chris being raised on a farm while Nancy was probably raised in a middle class family that lived in town.   Mentions were made of Nancy's disdain for his family.. especially Edith.. while it took time for Nancy to warm to Chris's dad.

The only way I bought Nancy softening during the Marland era was because her partner/rock of 50+ years Chris was no longer there so she had to adjust and take on some of his traits (since Chris tended to be the more affectionate of the two).

I think the route they took with Nancy post-Dan/Mac was the realistic route with her still having friends, active at the hospital, being supportive/mentor to the younger women, even having Rose's dad as male companionship/friendship.

 

17 minutes ago, Mitch64 said:

.I think Nancy written as Nancy should be (not the sweet grandmother Marland turned her into) would not want another man around, or would make his life hell with her demanding nature.

That's an interesting idea, because Nancy wasn't looking for a partner, she was doing fine.  And that is an interesting story on its own.

9 hours ago, adrnyc said:

.I just found out a good friend had her husband leave her and her baby. So I'm taking out my aggression here.

Sorry, you are going through a rough time, one hopes that talking about old soaps could be a nice distraction from the stressors of real life.

1 hour ago, Mitch64 said:

Mac was gross to me( he looked like he reeked of ciggies) and Nancy was so classy. I know Marland said he wanted to show that romance continued on in older people but...

LOL.  I'm glad somebody finally acknowledged this. And I can't argue with your description -- although I don't feel as strongly about it as you do.  I never thought Mac was a good choice for Nancy's second husband. I can't imagine Nancy being attracted to him, after a lifetime with Chris.  Mac was too gruff and rough around the edges and too working-class. Plus the actor was not particularly strong on daytime (although he seems fine in all the old primetime shows I've seen him in).  He certainly wasn't a strong enough actor to play out the Alzheimers storyline that was intended to go on for seven or eight years.

Here's my opinion of Marland's motivation for giving Nancy a second marriage so soon:  Mac had been on the show as the police lieutenant since at least the Douglas Cummings storyline, and possibly even earlier. And he was the proper age.  Marland was eager to do the Alzheimers plot in which he wanted to involve Nancy.  So he just shoved Mac and Nancy together, despite their seeming incompatibility, and started down the road to dementia quite soon after they married.  Maybe Marland felt he didn't have enough time to introduce a new (more appropriate) older man to be Nancy's next husband.  So in order to kick the Alzheimers plot into high gear, he just chose Mac and moved forward.

Although I didn't mind the Alzheimers plot and felt the writing was very good, I truly feel it would have been far more effective and believable with a stronger actor.  And the lack of appeal between Nancy and Mac also harmed the plot, in my opinion.  It was great to see Nancy finally have a storyline (was this Nancy's first real storyline ever?).  But I would have preferred perhaps a retired doctor or retired college professor as Nancy's new beau.  All this is just my opinion, so feel free to disagree.

11 hours ago, Tisy-Lish said:

That phrase should be banned from the message board.  It is offensive to the entire genre.

I envy that mentality as it certainly would have made it easier to slog through the last 10-15 years of ATWT, just not caring. Of course, if viewers hadn't cared, ATWT wouldn't have lasted to that point, or much further than Golden Windows.                                               

Edited October 25Oct 25 by DRW50