As The World Turns Discussion Thread

[vetsoapfan]

To be fair, I do suppose that if Goutman had been hell-bent on axing the vets, he could have campaigned to fire them outright. As far as we know, anyway, he did not try to do that.

Molly, Katie, NuCraig, NuPaul, NuDusty, Henry...there were so many abrasive characters who were shoved down our throats in later years. I found many of the most-featured actors to be unbearable in those final years. But again to be fair, different viewers had different favorites. This has always been the case on soaps. It must be a challenge to balance out the interests and desires of all the different fanbases.

Edited March 7 by vetsoapfan

[Khan]

Any soap that lasts more than a few years is bound to evolve, with new characters and families replacing or supplanting old.  But, I believe that what makes a GOOD soap in that respect is that it still feels like itself even with all the changes.  Yes, there was a period in Marland's second run when ATWT felt dark - although, nowhere NEAR as dark as Passanante and latter Sheffer - but it still felt like ATWT (at least, to me).  And it didn't matter who was still on the show and on the front burner and who wasn't.  It still felt like home, if you know what I mean.  That's the difference we talk about when we talk about Sheffer in relation to everything else connected to the show.  His stuff might have been exciting to watch (...for the most part...) and a tremendous boost of energy after a period when it was clear no one involved knew which direction to go after Marland's death, but did it still feel like we were watching ATWT?  That's the question!

[Vee]

I'll be that guy talking crazy: Next to Edge of Night I think GL is the P&G soap most viable for a full-on revival, but I can see ATWT going the micro-soap route with a very small and limited core of characters/families that could do something like 10-15 mins online as an experiment. People have been talking about 'microsoaps' lately anyway. It would just be nice to see those classic brands revived in some small way, and to play with the permeability of the medium. As we've all been discussing lately (especially since yesterday's announcement), the TV business has little left to lose.

And I'd be curious as to people's individual answers. Not just about Sheffer but about the various regimes following Marland before him. I just know nothing hooked me into the show in that loud, garish period at both ATWT and GL in the late '90s. Sheffer's show got me for awhile because of strong actors and what I felt were very good scripts early on, but its flaws and systemic issues have already been well-trod and are very valid, so as you and others have noted it's classed as unrecognizable for many too. Diving deep into the Marland years as I have since, you see what he did that was so problematic.

Edited March 7 by Vee

[Khan]

That's because GL had a theme - the so-called "brotherhood of man" and the belief in a "guiding light" that binds us all - that was timeless and ageless.  You could pick up the show where it left off (but set in the present day), you could return it to its' roots as a faith-based program, or you could make it GL "in name only," with a new setting and a new cast of characters, but as long as you keep that clear, identifiable theme in mind, you'll have something that will speak to fans both new and old.

And to those who are gonna complain that the thread has been derailed yet again, I say, build a bridge and get over it.

[Vee]

In fairness (well, to myself) I was only mentioning GL in passing as I thought I was trying to pivot to an ATWT thought experiment, but yes, ITA.

[Paul Raven]

Which is exactly what Irna did when she brought the show back in the late 40's in a new  setting with new characters.

[Khan]

Exactly.  A "new" GL of 2024/2025 doesn't have to keep revolving around the Bauers, Chamberlains, Lewises, Reardons and Spauldings anymore than it needed to continue revolve around the Ruthledges and Kranskys in order to survive and be successful.  It just needs to be GL.

[Vee]

I will simply pull up my GL revamp posts next time someone wants to talk about this in that thread. But as for ATWT, yes: I can see P&G capitalizing on things if The Gates does well by trying to get a nostalgia hit on these previously dead IPs from viewers who watched with their parents or grannies or babysitters (my sitter watched the '80s/early '90s CBS lineup religiously). So why not run ATWT for 10-15 mins on an app or something as a trial with a couple families? That's how it all started.

[adrnyc]

That's what I'm hoping to find out now that I'm back in the '00s. From watching everything over the past 7 years that exist from the 80s and 90s, it still feels like the same show as the 90s at least. The 80s was heavy with the entire Snyder family and now we're down to just Holden and Emma from that era. But the vets are all still there and active. (As of March '00) I've just come off of 2 years where Tom and Margo were front and center - Eddie, Tom's affair with Emily, Margo and Alec Wallace, his murder, etc. 

Bob, Kim, and John have all been heavily involved with Andy and Denise's baby, Hope. The two just got married in order for Denise to keep custody. John is not taking it lying down. Kim is the intermediary trying to help each see the other's side of things. 

There's a new crop of teenagers, which happens about every 3 years. This group is Bryant, Jennifer, Abagail, Christopher, Katie, and Adam. All of them, other than Abagail, we've known since they were born so I feel the ties to the past 7 years I've been watching. (SORAS is such a cruel disease - just takes years or sometimes a full decade after those kids lives! 

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)

Hal has completely disappeared for the past few months - I wonder if Benjamin was off doing a play or something? Having been on the show for 15 years now, he's definitely missed but I know he'll return soon enough.

Most of the 90s characters didn't seem to make it through. Carly (who has felt like she belonged in Oakdale since Maura's first scene) and Jack and Molly are the only ones who've lasted. Oh, I forgot about Ben and Camille - they've both been on at least 3 years by now.

To me, as of now, it still feels like Oakdale. I'm interested to see what's to come. It's been 24 years since I last saw it so I may feel completely differently about it.

[Mitch64]

I thought another interesting thing about GL that could be brought into the present day was that its core families, much more then say ATWT, were comprised of generations coming from immigrants, The Bauers, the Reardons, the Coopers and yes, unfortunately the Santos (which coulda shoulda been so much more of a latin family trying to make its mark in this country.) That was such an interesting premise which was basically ignored...the Bauer family should have been aspirational for immigrants as would Cooper and Reardon (who retained some of their blue collar background) with a new family coming in and mixing it up...the Spaulding's can stay as an example of WASP privilege "We have ours and we are damn well going to keep it" and well, I am sorry, dump the Lewis...they just don't fit into the theme (well Alex or India would say, "hillbillies" but...) 

 

[Soapsuds]

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[DRW50]

Much of the hype for Sheffer at the time was about lifting him above ATWT, all about the changes he wanted to make to ATWT and wasn't allowed to do. Sheffer, Guza, JFP, Ron Carlivati, all hyped for themselves, not for what they did for the genre. We were never meant to care about ATWT itself when he was there - it was just the template for his work. Marland certainly put his own issues into ATWT, but he also respected the traditions of the show. When you run a show for almost 8 years, you will inevitably change the show irrevocably, but he still tried to keep the core intact. To be fair, by the time Sheffer got there, most of the core was gone, but it's still extremely difficult to watch a show where someone who seemingly has such contempt for their show, or their genre, is treated as such a god. 

The darkness under Marland was in some ways harder to watch because you did care about the people involved. You felt the pain. '00s ATWT was just a corpse being kicked, as you were encouraged to watch and laugh.

Edited March 9 by DRW50

[DramatistDreamer]

From my on again, off again experience of viewing during his tenure and reading the press surrounding this screenwriter who deigned to condescend to write a daytime soap opera (back then, there still was a LOT of snobbery about what media someone wrote for, as I would learn after getting into a dramatic writing. MFA program when my school’s career services head asked me whether I had submitted a play or a screenplay or television script for my admissions portfolio and when I answered that I had submitted a stage play, he said “oh, that’s a much higher bar!” As someone who specifically applied to that program to gain for experience in writing across all media, I was shocked to hear him say this, needless to say.) It was telling that during his acceptance speech at the Daytime Emmys, Sheffer mixed up All My Children and As The World Turns, as AMC was the soap he had often desired to write for—he really should have prepared a speech, it all came tumbling from his lips during and post acceptance. Bless.

So ATWT had become daytime’s version of Weekend At Bernie’s? I know I’m wrong for thinking this, but that image popped into my head immediately when I read this.

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[adrnyc]

It's interesting to hear someone else's opinion because I couldn't have had more of a 180 degree different experience of that area. I started watching in the Leah Laiman era. Loved the actors but the story was so dull and boring. Then Sheffer came on and BAM - it was must. see. TV. When he left, I felt it was never the same. Frankly, even in his last 6-9 months, I felt as if he had run out of story but the producers also let go a slew of actors and I was in and out the last 6 years, although full-in for the final 2 1/2.

I agree that John was a major loss for the show, especially because he just disappeared. No explanation, IIRC. But then again, Larry was always extremely vocal about how he felt doing soap work was beneath him - no idea why he stayed for decades other than it was a solid paycheck - so I could understand TPTB not having any respect for his longevity. Still...I'm with you that I would've loved to see John and Lucinda as the Bizarro Bob and Kim, as you put it!

[Paul Raven]

I don't think he felt that way. He was realistic about soaps and their limitations. He said he would play anything as long as he felt their was an honest motivation behind it. He liked the people he worked with (even married one!) and it gave him the opportunity to do stage work w/o worrying about money.

He was more dismissive of a lot of primetime stuff and laughed when ABC tried to lure him with promises of the chance to work on Love Boat and Fantasy Island.