54 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

Marland always said he had the next phase of the story planned out, which would have been Carrie integrating her personalities.

Don't know how that would have played out onscreen (endless therapy sessions?) and how the Ross/Carrie story would have progressed.

Maybe Carrie says until she gets well she wants Ross to move on w/o her. Ross steadfastly refuses but is tempted by another?

I think we get a glimpse of that in one of the other episodes available from around that point, but I do wonder how that would have gone with everything with Jackie and Justin. I imagine they would have forgiven, but...what a lot to forgive. 

(I assume it was not Marland's decision to kill off Jackie? If only they'd just recast)

 

I never know who wrote what, so this theory is based solely on conjecture, but I wonder if killing Jackie and sending Justin out of town as Phillip was SORASed into a leading man was to solidify his place as a Spaulding by not having to deal with the mess of his biological family?

Although the reveal of his parenthood played a key role in his relationship with Beth and Mindy, it was really about the secret rather than anything to do with his identity. 

Unlike Dinah who really changed once she found that Vanessa was her mother, Phillip remained an uptight preppy regardless of his origins.  For certain by the time John Bolger was cast, viewers would be forgiven for forgetting that Phillip was ever adopted.  And by the end, when Alan was an organ donation match, despite having no common DNA, it was no longer an issue for plot purposes.

Killing Jackie meant that future writers didn't need to deal with the constant issue of where she was during Phillip's wedding, divorces, the birth of his kids and his other trials and tribulations.  Elizabeth was off in Europe and she had wanted Jackie and Justin to raise Phillip, so her absence was logically explained; even though she was sorely missed.  But, how would they have dealt with Jackie, who spent years trying to be close to Phillip, not being a part of his adult life?  I would hazard to guess that the SORASing of Phillip made casting Jackie (and Hope) difficult because they were both women in their 30s just a few years before Phillip was aged into someone old enough to have a kid and get married.

One other note about recent discussions, regardless of the outcome of the Carrie story, I think it laid the character groundwork for Ross's attraction to Blake.  He liked a creative, eccentric woman who balanced his rather staid personality, and the audience who had watched him with Carrie got that part of his persona.

Edited June 24, 20223 yr by j swift

2 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I think we get a glimpse of that in one of the other episodes available from around that point, but I do wonder how that would have gone with everything with Jackie and Justin. I imagine they would have forgiven, but...what a lot to forgive. 

(I assume it was not Marland's decision to kill off Jackie? If only they'd just recast)

 

Over the years I read that Marland planned to have Carrie murder Jackie in cold blood, but because he was ordered to end the story, he killed her off anyway in the plane crash. If true, even though it would've been 1 of Carrie's other personalities I don't see how they could've kept her long-term afterwards. Also if true, he was able to do it on ATWT with Royce and Neal. It remains so stupid that Jackie was killed off before Philip found out she and Justin were his biological parents 

12 minutes ago, j swift said:

I never know who wrote what, so this theory is based solely on conjecture, but I wonder if killing Jackie and sending Justin out of town as Phillip was SORASed into a leading man was to solidify his place as a Spaulding by not having to deal with the mess of his biological family?

Although the reveal of his parenthood played a key role in his relationship with Beth and Mindy, it was really about the secret rather than anything to do with his identity. 

Unlike Dinah who really changed once she found that Vanessa was her mother, Phillip remained an uptight preppy regardless of his origins.  For certain by the time John Bolger was cast, viewers would be forgiven for forgetting that Phillip was ever adopted.  And by the end, when Alan was an organ donation match, despite having no common DNA, it was no longer an issue for plot purposes.

Killing Jackie meant that future writers didn't need to deal with the constant issue of where she was during Phillip's wedding, divorces, the birth of his kids and his other trials and tribulations.  Elizabeth was off in Europe and she had wanted Jackie and Justin to raise Phillip, so her absence was logically explained; even though she was sorely missed.  But, how would they have dealt with Jackie, who spent years trying to be close to Phillip, not being a part of his adult life?  I would hazard to guess that the SORASing of Phillip made casting Jackie (and Hope) difficult because they were both women in their 30s just a few years before Phillip was aged into someone old enough to have a kid and get married.

One other note about recent discussions, regardless of the outcome of the Carrie story, I think it laid the character groundwork for Ross's attraction to Blake.  He liked a creative, eccentric woman who balanced his rather staid personality, and the audience who had watched him with Carrie got that part of his persona.

Marland killed off Jackie under Allen Potter and Gail Kobe had Pam Long write off Justin. Jackie and Justin should've stayed on the show so there would be no need to explain her absences. In daytime we've always suspended disbelief when it came to parents and kids. Maureen Garrett didn't look old enough to be any of the adult Blake's mother, and Jean Carol didn't look old enough to be Frank and Harley's mother. Had Hope not left and they aged Alan Michael with Carl Evans as they did in 87, we would've focused on character and story, not ages. I'm just saying the tptb wanted these characters gone and it had nothing to do with parent/kid age differences 

I would assume that Jane Eliot would have stayed another year and that would have been it. She was not the type to settle into a longterm role (at least at that point) 

So Doug would have known that and written  to that point-Carrie would either leave town or die.

Carrie Mowery was not well received as Jackie so killing her off was an easy decision.

As for Justin, Tom O'Rourke's contract was up. He probably was ready to leave and as Kobe had no interest in him staying as he was older and expensive (going into his third contract) so goodbye Justin.

1 hour ago, bboy875 said:

Over the years I read that Marland planned to have Carrie murder Jackie in cold blood, but because he was ordered to end the story, he killed her off anyway in the plane crash. If true, even though it would've been 1 of Carrie's other personalities I don't see how they could've kept her long-term afterwards. Also if true, he was able to do it on ATWT with Royce and Neal. It remains so stupid that Jackie was killed off before Philip found out she and Justin were his biological parents 

I thought that Allen M. Potter ended the story himself by firing Jane Elliot on the spot & that then, in protest, and angry, Doug Marland quit & went to LOVING. Marland with orders to end the story sounds a bit more civilized. How intense was the state of disagreement? And, why oh why would an EP not hear about this DID tale & character & be hot to trot to play it out all the way? What was there not to like?

12 minutes ago, bboy875 said:

Over the years I read that Marland planned to have Carrie murder Jackie in cold blood, but because he was ordered to end the story, he killed her off anyway in the plane crash. If true, even though it would've been 1 of Carrie's other personalities I don't see how they could've kept her long-term afterwards. Also if true, he was able to do it on ATWT with Royce and Neal. It remains so stupid that Jackie was killed off before Philip found out she and Justin were his biological parents 

Marland killed off Jackie under Allen Potter and Gail Kobe had Pam Long write off Justin. Jackie and Justin should've stayed on the show so there would be no need to explain her absences. In daytime we've always suspended disbelief when it came to parents and kids. Maureen Garrett didn't look old enough to be any of the adult Blake's mother, and Jean Carol didn't look old enough to be Frank and Harley's mother. Had Hope not left and they aged Alan Michael with Carl Evans as they did in 87, we would've focused on character and story, not ages. I'm just saying the tptb wanted these characters gone and it had nothing to do with parent/kid age differences 

In the long-term it also really limited Royce's tenure on ATWT (I don't think Marland living would have made much difference there). It's so strange to imagine how Carrie would have stayed after murdering Jackie. 

Jackie never should have been killed off at that point. She was the main one who kicked off the Philip story - her obsession with being in his life and being close to him, to the point of marrying  Alan, a man she did not like or love. It's unfortunate she was the first to go...and that they never even brought Elizabeth back. Killing off Jackie, who was so wonderful under the Dobsons, so vital, just because Carrie Mowery was a dud sums up everything going wrong with soaps by this point.

There's an August  1982 episode where it seems like Alan is laying the groundwork for Philip returning. Did Marland plan that? If so,  killing off Jackie makes even less sense.

 

Holly and Vanessa seem to make Elizabeth, Hope, and Jackie redundant.  I mean how many mid-40s career women could they juggle? 

I still maintain that creatively the Mindy/Beth/Phillip/Rick quad only works if Phillip is perceived as a full Spaulding, worthy of MIndy and Beth's Prince Charming fantasies, with no lingering baggage about his origin after Bradley drop his truth bomb.  Thus creating the need to usher those pesky parents out of the plot.

As a side note, I am amused by comments on what writers "should" have done, rather than what we wished they'd done.  Because it implies that there was a correct answer that any writer would have known if they could've read the mind of fans twenty years after the fact.

Edited June 24, 20223 yr by j swift

12 minutes ago, j swift said:

Holly and Vanessa seem to make Elizabeth, Hope, and Jackie redundant.  I mean how many mid-40s career women could they juggle?  And given the old wife's tale about writers being paid residuals for past characters, one could see why new regimes would be encouraged to create new character to fill those slots.

I still maintain that creatively the Mindy/Beth/Phillip/Rick quad only works if Phillip is a full Spaulding, worthy of MIndy and Beth's Prince Charming fantasies, with no lingering baggage about his origin after Bradley drop his truth bomb.  Thus creating the need to usher those pesky parents out of the plot.

Holly was gone for most of the '80s, and Vanessa was often written into a corner during the '80s, so I think there was still space for Hope (who was nothing like either of them) and Jackie (who was, under the Dobsons anyway, a very unique character). Elizabeth I think was fine being left out if Jackie and Hope were still around, but without them, I would have had her come back more often.

I can see where Philip initially worked better as a full Spaulding, but that ran out of steam fairly quickly, and stories like his going to the dark side and being abandoned by everyone in 1988 would have been stronger if Justin had been involved to help pick up the pieces. 

Holy [!@#$%^&*]! I don't know if these were posted here before, but I don't remember them. Various B-52s videos were put into an archive for the University of Georgia. They were, as I'm sure you all know, on Guiding Light, and clips of them, in not the best quality, have been online for a number of years. I saw that someone had clipped these clips on Youtube again, with some footage I hadn't seen before, so I clicked on the link to the archive. I had half-assumed they would just have the performances, but hoped for more. As it turns out, they uploaded, IN FULL, BOTH April 1982 (don't know the exact date) episodes that the band was in...commercials and everything! Yes, there's a watermark in the middle, but honestly, who can complain???

I know the late Ricky Wilson was very proud to get to be on GL. Given how dire our times are now, I'd like to think he helped do this to give his fellow fans some brief joy...

@victoria foxton @Mitch @Mitch64 @slick jones @soapfan770 @Vee @Paul Raven @Soapsuds@bboy875 @j swift @MichaelGL @zanereed @jam6242 @Tonksadora

https://bmac.libs.uga.edu/pawtucket2/index.php/Detail/objects/363158

Edited June 25, 20223 yr by DRW50

Thanks @DRW50!

1 hour ago, ScottyBman said:

The continuous recasts of Nicole were problematic.  At first she was the party girl/rich girl/model.  That was a good contrast to the uppity Donna and the stallwart Peter, who you knew came from money, but was a smart, level headed hard worker.  Nicole Part Deux was some sort of combination of smart, level headed and she all of sudden sang.  She pretended to be a reporter to get to meet Michael.  She was the one who stood up to Reginald.  Then we get Designer Nicole.  Not as confident.  Not as level headed.  She never really had much of a base in Bay City and seemed to come in for a storyline and then once that came to an end, they didn't know what to do with her.  Once she went to jail and Peter left town, the Loves were really the Hudsons and that was that.  It certainly happens as time goes on as it happens in real life....but with the constant change of head writers as well.

 

Nicole #1 was tall & thin & did cocaine with Jamie, who was writing the novel at that time. Nicole #3, the fashion designer was extremely petite. Of all of Cass's romantic interests, Nicole #3 was the least among them. And, of course, she had the biggest secret, her mother's, and a handgun. This is out of order. I couldn't get in to post about AW. This should be GL but I don't know the context.

Thanks so much @DRW50!!

4 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Holy [!@#$%^&*]! I don't know if these were posted here before, but I don't remember them. Various B-52s videos were put into an archive for the University of Georgia. They were, as I'm sure you all know, on Guiding Light, and clips of them, in not the best quality, have been online for a number of years. I saw that someone had clipped these clips on Youtube again, with some footage I hadn't seen before, so I clicked on the link to the archive. I had half-assumed they would just have the performances, but hoped for more. As it turns out, they uploaded, IN FULL, BOTH April 1982 (don't know the exact date) episodes that the band was in...commercials and everything! Yes, there's a watermark in the middle, but honestly, who can complain???

I know the late Ricky Wilson was very proud to get to be on GL. Given how dire our times are now, I'd like to think he helped do this to give his fellow fans some brief joy...

@victoria foxton @Mitch @Mitch64 @slick jones @soapfan770 @Vee @Paul Raven @Soapsuds@bboy875 @j swift @MichaelGL @zanereed @jam6242 @Tonksadora

https://bmac.libs.uga.edu/pawtucket2/index.php/Detail/objects/363158

WOW!

Thanks!!!!! @DRW50

Very cool.