What black got to do with it. Blacks has their own problems. I notice Everytime people talk about Gay issue they bring up black people. Black is still black with issues because people still don't want to discuss racism.

And what exactly does this have to do with this thread? If you like to make everything about race, fine, but I don't see anyone discussing race in this thread outside of the scenario of an actor refusing to kiss someone of a different race.

Edited May 22, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

Where I hesitate is in saying he's a homophobe, or saying this was all about a gay kiss, because he was having problems with the role before this kiss. I think when too much becomes about homophobia, real homophobia is blunted, and the cause of gay rights is hurt. I think there were many reasons for him to hate the writing for Adam (I hate it and I'm not even playing the part), so while I do agree he was completely unprofessional and proven he cannot be trusted to hold down an acting job, I can't go along with the homophobic angle, yet.

Bottom line is: If (and I acknowlege it's still an if) CE refused to kiss a male character because of his "beliefs", he's no less disgusting to me than if he had refused to kiss a black woman. Period.

And yes, I am an activist for tolerance - in whatever medium that intolerance exists. Today it just happened to be on my fav TV show.

So, here is where I have been troubled tonight.

Let's say a guy is straight BUT...he believes in gay causes. Maybe he has gay friends and relatives. He supported his sister marrying her girlfriend. All that stuff. Bona-fide street-cred as a "friend of gays".

But, he's straight. And personally kissing a guy icks him. He is totally supportive of the gay world, but he doesn't personally want to be with a man...

Does that make him homophobic?

Regardless, I agree with folks here that -- as an actor -- he should have been prepared for anything. I also know that this has not been independently confirmed. But does he deserve that label, if the only thing he didn't want to do was kiss Gellman?

Let's say a guy is straight BUT...he believes in gay causes. Maybe he has gay friends and relatives. He supported his sister marrying her girlfriend. All that stuff. Bona-fide street-cred as a "friend of gays".

But, he's straight. And personally kissing a guy icks him. He is totally supportive of the gay world, but he doesn't personally want to be with a man...

Does that make him homophobic?

Then he shouldn't have gone into acting. Kissing girls was not Rock Hudson's top item on his to-do list, but he was an actor and kissing someone he doesn't want to kiss comes with the job. It's ridiculous.

So, here is where I have been troubled tonight.

Let's say a guy is straight BUT...he believes in gay causes. Maybe he has gay friends and relatives. He supported his sister marrying her girlfriend. All that stuff. Bona-fide street-cred as a "friend of gays".

But, he's straight. And personally kissing a guy icks him. He is totally supportive of the gay world, but he doesn't personally want to be with a man...

Does that make him homophobic?

Regardless, I agree with folks here that -- as an actor -- he should have been prepared for anything. I also know that this has not been independently confirmed. But does he deserve that label, if the only thing he didn't want to do was kiss Gellman?

Here's MY thing: for years gay actors had to live in the closet. They had to kiss, "make love" to and marry women, on and off screen. And they did it because the job called for it. It wasn't right but they had no other option.

If CE doesn't want to do it, maybe he doesn't deserve to be called a homophobe but neither does he deserve to be called an actor.

From my perspective every man has his own boundaries. There comes a point when individuals will be tested as to whether or not they are willing to compromise themselves. Some people do some people don't, it matters less what MOST others think and more of what "you" the person in the situation feel is right for you or not. What defines any man's character is them standing up for what they believe when that moment comes. Everyone is entitled to his or her comment on CE's alleged reasonings, but in this case I'll say it's not my place to say CE would be wrong if he did not want to kiss that man under any Circumstance. In a strange way I understand that am i a homophobe? perhaps under some majority rule I am but I don't feel any less right about my position and I don't personally believe I am; it shouldn't matter outside of that.

Edited May 22, 200916 yr by classicmoment

And what exactly does this have to do with this thread? If you like to make everything about race, fine, but I don't see anyone discussing race in thread outside of the scenario of an actor refusing to kiss someone of a different race.

Please folks lets table this. I'm a straight black woman and an ardent advocate for gay rights. Pleaase don't let this discussion devolve into Afro v. Homo. That serves no one.

Damn folks, we don't even know the whole story yet already he's being labeled homophobic

Of course he is being called that, some just LOVE to throw around the "homophobe" label. They don't even know the FULL story and he's being labeled a "bigot" "homophobe" and hard to tell what other nasty names.

But does not wanting to kiss a guy really make him a homophobe? I just don't buy that at all. I think someone could be all for gay rights and not feel comfortable kissing another guy for many many reasons, including religious ones. I'm an atheist, but people do have a right to their beliefs and I think it's unfair to expect people to go against them.

Oh definitely, it doesn't make you a homophobe to not to want to kiss someone of the same sex, I guess some find it hard to believe that NOT everyone is comfortable doing that, but it doesn't mean they're homophobes or bigots.

I can't believe anyone would defend this ass. Imagine if Tuc Watkins said he refuses to kiss Robin Strasser and is leaving...there would be 500 posts hoping the door hit him on the way out.

Q I love you, but I totally disagree. If Tuc were hired to play a gay role and then had RS foisted on him, I would see that as unfair. I just think we are going to have more of these unfortunate situations if TBTB don't let people know the characters orientation before they take the role. That is to no ones benefit. I do think CE should have just played what he was told to play, but not everyone is comfortable playing against their orientation and I don't think they should have to.

Please folks lets table this. I'm a straight black woman and an ardent advocate for gay rights. Pleaase don't let this discussion devolve into Afro v. Homo. That serves no one.

You are one of those posters here whose turns of phrase just delight me. Damn you are well-spoken!

Then he shouldn't have gone into acting. Kissing girls was not Rock Hudson's top item on his to-do list, but he was an actor and kissing someone he doesn't want to kiss comes with the job. It's ridiculous.

Well, I do think this may be sort of a turning of the tides where people will have to be ready to do whatever comes up. But until very recently there were hardly any gay characters on daytime, so there was no reason for people to think their character might be gay or bi.

As far as movie stars go, they get to read the script before they sign on, so you know what you will be doing before you sign on.

Q I love you, but I totally disagree. If Tuc were hired to play a gay role and then had RS foisted on him, I would see that as unfair. I just think we are going to have more of these unfortunate situations if TBTB don't let people know the characters orientation before they take the role. That is to no ones benefit. I do think CE should have just played what he was told to play, but not everyone is comfortable playing against their orientation and I don't think they should have to.

Exactly.

So, here is where I have been troubled tonight.

Let's say a guy is straight BUT...he believes in gay causes. Maybe he has gay friends and relatives. He supported his sister marrying her girlfriend. All that stuff. Bona-fide street-cred as a "friend of gays".

But, he's straight. And personally kissing a guy icks him. He is totally supportive of the gay world, but he doesn't personally want to be with a man...

Does that make him homophobic?

No, of course it doesn't. Being homophobic is being angry and hateful towards gays, supporting laws that repress them and their relationships, and believing that gays are evil or sick because of their sexuality. Everybody gets icked out by something. I'm a straight woman but I could never kiss a guy, or woman for that matter, with a stud in their tongue. It just icks me out to no end and I could never get over it enough to do it. That doesn't mean that I don't believe that everyone has the right to do with their bodies whatever they wish because I do.

If CE doesn't want to do it, maybe he doesn't deserve to be called a homophobe but neither does he deserve to be called an actor.

I have to disagree. Every actor in the world has something that they wouldn't do if asked, especially if it was something that they didn't know about when hired. It could be nudity. It could be a pedophilic scene. It could be committing graphic violence or inflicting torture. It could be many things. Daryl Hannah was playing a mermaid in Splash and there was a scene where her character was supposed to be in a restaurant ripping a lobster apart with her teeth. Hannah objected because she was a vegetarian and said she couldn't do it. She wasn't fired nor told to do it anyway. Director Ron Howard had the props people rig up an edible fake lobster out of red licorice and mashed potatoes. The scene worked and she was perfect for the part. Did she not deserve to be called an actor because she objected to playing that scene exactly as written? I don't think so. Resourceful writers, directors, and producers work through things like this and usually succeed which is why I doubt this was the only factor involved here. It sounds like Engen had numerous issues with many things going on long before this ever came up.

Of course he is being called that, some just LOVE to throw around the "homophobe" label. They don't even know the FULL story and he's being labeled a "bigot" "homophobe" and hard to tell what other nasty names.

Yup, which is why I don't understand why some want him make a statement. The people who've already branded him seem to have set the scenario in their heads and aren't gonna budge from that scenario no matter what he says.

Oh definitely, it doesn't make you a homophobe to not to want to kiss someone of the same sex, I guess some find it hard to believe that NOT everyone is comfortable doing that, but it doesn't mean they're homophobes or bigots.

ITA.

Now that Perez's latched onto the drama expect Nuke fans to hold a candlelight vigil outside CBS studios.

If he is just homophobic, or if he gets creeped out by feeling stubble on his lips (these aren't necessarily COMPLETELY the same thing), that's a different thing.

He spent a year with his lips brushing up against that mole; you'd think a little stubble would be a walk in the park.

He spent a year with his lips brushing up against that mole; you'd think a little stubble would be a walk in the park.

Daryl Hannah was playing a mermaid in Splash and there was a scene where her character was supposed to be in a restaurant ripping a lobster apart with her teeth. Hannah objected because she was a vegetarian and said she couldn't do it. She wasn't fired nor told to do it anyway. Director Ron Howard had the props people rig up an edible fake lobster out of red licorice and mashed potatoes. The scene worked and she was perfect for the part. Did she not deserve to be called an actor because she objected to playing that scene exactly as written?

That example makes no sense. She did play the scene exactly as written. The script says 'mermaid rips apart a lobster with her teeth' and that's what was shot. The fact that it wasn't a real lobster is immaterial. If the script says 'Adam kisses Rafe' and Engen won't do it, are the prop people supposed to build a fake Rafe head out of paper mache? Because if the kiss isn't seen, then it isn't been done as written in the script.

Edited May 22, 200916 yr by Scryber96