I got this information from the Another World Homepage.

 

Jacqueline Courtney (Alice Matthews Frame 1964): September 24, 1946 - December 20, 2010

George Reinholt (Steve Frame 1968): August 22, 1939 - November 11, 2013.

22 hours ago, Neil Johnson said:

 

I loved Victoria Wyndham. But over the years, she had some of the most terrible hairstyles (mostly curly perms) of any soap star.  They didn't do that to Susan Lucci, Erica Slezak, or Kathryn Hays.  Sometimes I look at old photos and videos of VW, and I'm almost embarrassed for her.  Sadly, it was almost as if somebody was experimenting with her hair.   

 

The best hairstyle VW ever had was around 1993-94.  I didn't mind when Rachel wore here hair in a bun from 1996-99, but it always reminded me of Justine 😜.

 

 

On 12/5/2020 at 12:35 AM, vetsoapfan said:

 

It is quite baffling how much TPTB TOTALLY botched Jacquie Courtney's return to the show. They completely screwed it up. I'd love to know what was going on behind the scenes at that time.

 

I thought that AW was vastly improved and highly entertaining during 1984 with Allen Potter as EP and Gary Tomlin and Richard Culliton as headwriters. Potter retired at the end of 1984, and was supposed to replaced by Mary Ellis Bunim who was the EP of ATWT.  Bunim instead joined the Dobsons on Santa Barbara.  Stephen Schenkel took over AW in January 1985. He was an executive at Benton & Bowles, one of the advertising agencies that P&G used to assist in producing their soaps.  Tomlin was still headwriter, then there was a writer's strike.  Courtney left the show during the writer's strike episodes in April.  So for a few months in 1985 I don't think the show had an official headwriter in Spring and early summer.  Sam Hall and Gillian Spencer were named headwriters in the summer.  The decline in quality was quite noticeable from 1984 to 1985.

Allen Potter was the original AW producer so had some knowledge of the foundations of the show. I wonder whether he had much say in the writing or was one of many voices (NBC, Headwriter ,P&G) vying to be heard.

Somebody had the idea to bring back Jacquie/Alice obviously thinking it would be good publicity and maybe lure back viewers as well as provide some continuity and structure.

That wasn't communicated to Gary Tomlin, who claimed he wasn't aware of Alice and her place in the story.

Sounds like the left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing.

Would love a definitive BTS account at what went on.

 

3 hours ago, watson71 said:

 

I thought that AW was vastly improved and highly entertaining during 1984 with Allen Potter as EP and Gary Tomlin and Richard Culliton as headwriters. Potter retired at the end of 1984, and was supposed to replaced by Mary Ellis Bunim who was the EP of ATWT.  Bunim instead joined the Dobsons on Santa Barbara.  Stephen Schenkel took over AW in January 1985. He was an executive at Benton & Bowles, one of the advertising agencies that P&G used to assist in producing their soaps.  Tomlin was still headwriter, then there was a writer's strike.  Courtney left the show during the writer's strike episodes in April.  So for a few months in 1985 I don't think the show had an official headwriter in Spring and early summer.  Sam Hall and Gillian Spencer were named headwriters in the summer.  The decline in quality was quite noticeable from 1984 to 1985.

 

Mary Ellis Bunim had  decimated ATWT while she was there, so at least she did not get the change to do the same thing to AW.  The cdecline in AW's quality might have been even worse than it was.

 

3 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Allen Potter was the original AW producer so had some knowledge of the foundations of the show. I wonder whether he had much say in the writing or was one of many voices (NBC, Headwriter ,P&G) vying to be heard.

Somebody had the idea to bring back Jacquie/Alice obviously thinking it would be good publicity and maybe lure back viewers as well as provide some continuity and structure.

That wasn't communicated to Gary Tomlin, who claimed he wasn't aware of Alice and her place in the story.

Sounds like the left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing.

Would love a definitive BTS account at what went on.

 

 

Me too!

18 hours ago, watson71 said:

I loved Victoria Wyndham. But over the years, she had some of the most terrible hairstyles (mostly curly perms) of any soap star.

 

I think this late-70s hairstyle served her well. But don't get me started on her wardrobe -- it looked great in the '70s, mostly jeans and other casual wear, and again in the early '90s when she was mainly wearing business suits. But the '80s were a complete disaster and I didn't like the "flowy" pantsuits she took to wearing in the late '90s.

 

On 12/5/2020 at 1:10 PM, Xanthe said:

Alice should have had a strong story of her own. Plus, she was given a hideous/butch haircut and dressed in ugly mannish clothes that were inappropriate.

 

I don't often comment on an actor's appearance, but that haircut was all wrong for Alice's return.   The audience (and Alice's loyal fans) had been through ten-years of Alice-replacements -- a few of which were borderline terrible.   So when Jacquie Courtney returned, the audience wanted the real Alice.  And the real Alice had long blonde hair.  Alice's opening scene with the "butch haircut and mannish clothes" was a jolt to the viewers, and turned me off immediately.   If Jacquie wanted to cut her hair, she should have waited a couple of months -- after she had settled back into the role.  

 

I realize TPTB were trying to portray Alice as a stronger woman.  But Alice had always been strong -- at least when Courtney was playing her.  Alice's only weakness had been her reaction to Steve and Rachel's shenanigans -- which almost drove her over the edge.  But otherwise, Alice was a very strong character -- as a nurse, with her other family members, with Sally, etc.   But the 1985 Super-Alice seemed artificial, and that was a turn-off to the long-term viewers.   So that, along with her lack of strong story and lack of a major romance all contributed to the failure of Courtney's return.   Too bad, because it so easily could have worked.   

57 minutes ago, Neil Johnson said:

1985 Super-Alice seemed artificial, and that was a turn-off to the long-term viewers.

I think one other issue that has gone unmentioned was the lack of reestablishing Alice and Sally's relationship.  There was no mention of how their maturity had affected their rapport.  I don't recall Sally (or even Aunt Liz) catching Alice up on her many weddings or life events that Alice had missed. 

 

Meanwhile, Ada and Rachel's relationship changed over time and they discussed their evolution from Rachel being judged by Ada during the Steven years, to Ada's support during the Mac years, and finally Rachel being able to care for Ada when she moved onto the Cory estate. 

 

While Sally never seemed disappointed or resentful that Alice went missing for most of the traumatic events in her life, Alice was so critical of Sally's choices both with David and Caitlin (being holier-than-thou was a Matthews family trait).  From my history of posting on this board, one can tell that I was never an Alice fan, but her relationship with Sally before Sally's demise negated most of their early history.  I mean why did Alice fight so hard to adopt Sally from her uncle and grandmother if she was going to completely ignore Sally in her early 20's?

Edited December 9, 20204 yr by j swift

1 hour ago, Neil Johnson said:

 

I don't often comment on an actor's appearance, but that haircut was all wrong for Alice's return.   The audience (and Alice's loyal fans) had been through ten-years of Alice-replacements -- a few of which were borderline terrible.   So when Jacquie Courtney returned, the audience wanted the real Alice.  And the real Alice had long blonde hair.  Alice's opening scene with the "butch haircut and mannish clothes" was a jolt to the viewers, and turned me off immediately.   If Jacquie wanted to cut her hair, she should have waited a couple of months -- after she had settled back into the role.  

 

I realize TPTB were trying to portray Alice as a stronger woman.  But Alice had always been strong -- at least when Courtney was playing her.  Alice's only weakness had been her reaction to Steve and Rachel's shenanigans -- which almost drove her over the edge.  But otherwise, Alice was a very strong character -- as a nurse, with her other family members, with Sally, etc.   But the 1985 Super-Alice seemed artificial, and that was a turn-off to the long-term viewers.   So that, along with her lack of strong story and lack of a major romance all contributed to the failure of Courtney's return.   Too bad, because it so easily could have worked.   

 

I have to wonder how much was down to the huge tonal shift AW had gone through in the few years before her return. The women had become much flippant and tougher, and the heroines who weren't that way were somewhat wet (from what I've seen of Sally it's mostly Mary Page Keller who made her stand out). Alice was never a bitch goddess type, like Donna, or a plucky heroine like Kathleen, and she had also been aged into a group that the show had trouble writing for. 

 

They probably should have taken  a much longer time coming up with real story if they wanted to bring Alice back. 

I think NBC and P&G also thought that Courtney's return would raise AW back to the top of the ratings after those terrible ratings in 1981-82.  When a huge increase in the ratings did not happen, I wonder if TPTB thought that Alice was an expendable character who could easily be written out of the show.  Something just wasn't right....

I think Jacquie had already cut her hair when she was on OLTL.

18 hours ago, j swift said:

While Sally never seemed disappointed or resentful that Alice went missing for most of the traumatic events in her life, Alice was so critical of Sally's choices both with David and Caitlin (being holier-than-thou was a Matthews family trait).  From my history of posting on this board, one can tell that I was never an Alice fan, but her relationship with Sally before Sally's demise negated most of their early history.  I mean why did Alice fight so hard to adopt Sally from her uncle and grandmother if she was going to completely ignore Sally in her early 20’s?

They kind of established it in 1979. I remember in one of the 90 minute episodes that used to be posted on YouTube, there was a scene of Sally crying to herself in Alice’s house, asking why did Alice leave her? 
 

By 1984-85, I’m sure that was forgotten though. Tomlin even went on the record saying he didn’t study the history of the show enough.

It's why her 1989 visits were probably well received.  She had longer hair, was warm, and confident.  

 

@vetsoapfanwould you say that the Alice of 1989 was more in line with how her Alice was back in the 60s and early 70s?

 

I could understand her more colder approach in 1984 to 1985 since she was steeling herself to return to Bay City and facing Rachel.  Had the writers studied her history...they could have written the character in that light while slowly letting her guard down the longer she stayed in Bay City.

With news coming this week that DAYS has hired both Jackee Harry and Linda Dano for upcoming roles in 2021, I really hope they get to interact on screen.  It's not Felicia Gallant and Lily Mason, but I do find it interesting that DAYS announced their hirings during the same week.  Now if they can get Stephen Schnetzer back on DAYS as Julie's brother Steven Olson.

15 minutes ago, watson71 said:

With news coming this week that DAYS has hired both Jackee Harry and Linda Dano for upcoming roles in 2021, I really hope they get to interact on screen.  It's not Felicia Gallant and Lily Mason, but I do find it interesting that DAYS announced their hirings during the same week.  Now if they can get Stephen Schnetzer back on DAYS as Julie's brother Steven Olson.

That would be just amazing.