I can't think of another character named Sally that had any prominence apart from Sally on Y&R in the 70's.

And Sally Spectra on B&B in the 80's/90's.

Edited January 10, 20196 yr by Paul Raven

6 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

I can't think of another character named Sally that had any prominence apart from Sally on Y&R in the 70's.

And Sally Spectra on B&B in the 80's/90's.

On a humorous note, we probably won't see any male characters named Caitlin again either.

Edited January 10, 20196 yr by j swift

11 hours ago, j swift said:

I've been thinking a lot about the dismantling of the Matthews and for all of the historic critiques about the loss of Alice and Pat (my favorite Matthews), it does make dramatic/ratings sense in the context of Sally Frame. 

 

Sally and Caitlin were a super couple and their overseas adventures were coupled with a spike in viewership.  However, structurally, for Sally to work as an underdog with Caitlin against the Loves, she couldn't have the support of her family behind her.  The Loves needed to be powerful in order for them to interfere with Sally and Caitlin.  So, if Sally could depend on Russ's medical expertise when Peter was poisoned at his art deco engagement yacht party, or Pat's support to fight Cecile, or even John Randolph's legal expertise to help Caitlin, then where is the drama?

 

My disappointment at Alice's return, with the bad haircut, at the end of Sally's character was that after all that Sally had been through Alice seemed like a bad mother.  It ruined Alice for me that Sally had an illegitimate child and never told her mother.  So, her styling issues were secondary for me.  Alice's dialogue about Caitlin was so judgmental that it smacked of Liz's treatment of Missy.  I always disliked the Matthews's hypocrisy about the value of family loyalty when they actively drove away most of their children and grandchildren's suitors.   Alice's return cemented that opinion for me.

 

I think the show really shot itself in the foot by killing off Sally. She had the potential to be a leading heroine for a very long time. The recast didn't work, but another actress could have worked well.

10 hours ago, pdm1974 said:

I think the show really shot itself in the foot by killing off Sally. She had the potential to be a leading heroine for a very long time. The recast didn't work, but another actress could have worked well.

I agree @pdm1974.  

 

Sally should have left town and then returned after Catlin and Brittany left with a new actress playing her.  Having Jennifer Runyon return would have been ideal.  She was my favourite Sally.

17 hours ago, j swift said:

When I taught there were always Erica's and Rachel's named after the soaps, but not one Reena.

 

When I was in school, it seemed like every African-American girl was named Erica.

https://vintage70ssoaprecaps.tumblr.com/post/182113150209/another-world-week-of-october-25-october-29

 

There's a flirtation between Sally and Cass that could have been great. 

 

I'm speaking of Sassy-Sally, (not Cailtin's-victim-dead-Sally).  It made me think of the completion of an imaginary arc where Sally and Cass go through their mid-30s, establish careers, become good citizens, struggle with a disease, fail at a business, but be good parents, and finally find there way back to each other......

 

I'm intrigued by Cass's equal who neither wanted to change him nor homogenize him.  Cecile was always looking over her shoulder for someone better, Nicole was always looking over her shoulder for the police to come and arrest her, Kathleen wanted him to be a Mckinnon, not a Winthrop, Frankie was a poor imitation of Kathleen and constantly put his life in peril.  And Lily was more of a convenience than an end-game.  Imagine if they'd pulled an "SFT" and brought back Sally for the final weeks?  She would have been great for Cass.

Edited January 18, 20196 yr by j swift

On 1/10/2019 at 1:43 AM, pdm1974 said:

I think the show really shot itself in the foot by killing off Sally. She had the potential to be a leading heroine for a very long time. The recast didn't work, but another actress could have worked well.

 

I totally agree.  There was so much potential with Sally.   The character could have left Bay City for awhile and return to town with a SORASED Kevin who was a teenager like Amanda Cory's age.  Also, Mary Page Keller's prime time roles only lasted a few years.  I think they could have lured her back to the show at some point in the 90s.   Had she lived, Sally could have been given many of those "Vicky-centered" storylines to carry out rather than just have the character of Vicky dominate the show.  Plus having Sally on the show would have been a good way to have Aunt Liz and Alice be viable characters who stayed in Bay City well into the 90s.  And since Rachel was her step-mother and Jamie her step-brother, Sally could have stayed involved with the Corys as well.

35 minutes ago, watson71 said:

 

I totally agree.  There was so much potential with Sally.   The character could have left Bay City for awhile and return to town with a SORASED Kevin who was a teenager like Amanda Cory's age.  Also, Mary Page Keller's prime time roles only lasted a few years.  I think they could have lured her back to the show at some point in the 90s.   Had she lived, Sally could have been given many of those "Vicky-centered" storylines to carry out rather than just have the character of Vicky dominate the show.  Plus having Sally on the show would have been a good way to have Aunt Liz and Alice be viable characters who stayed in Bay City well into the 90s.  And since Rachel was her step-mother and Jamie her step-brother, Sally could have stayed involved with the Corys as well.

 

I never understood why AW had such a penchant for killing off viable characters in the '80s. Sally Frame was one of them, but there was also the gruesome inexplicable murder of Julia Matthews Shearer as well.

It seems when Jennifer Runyon left the role of Sally.. that her function got transfered to Cecile since when she quit.. Sally was flirting with Cass and casually dating Peter while Donna looked down on her.  Even though the brief replacement and than Mary Page Keller played being with Peter.. she was eventually moved out of that orbit while Cecile was placed in that orbit.

I agree with everyone else here that killing Sally off was a mistake. It was certainly a shocker as she had driven story for several years prior to that. There were so many unnecessary deaths in the 80s but most of them weren't leading characters, at least not for long. The other character besides Alice that should have been around for the last decade was Nancy. Jane Cameron made a couple of brief returns at Mac's and Ada's funerals but if she didn't want to return full-time, they could have easily replaced her. I liked her a lot on the show, but she was far from Irreplaceable. I think she would have made a lot more sense in some of the shenanigans than Paulina did.

I wonder how Sally and Vicky's relationship would have been?  New Money Vicky and Old Money Sally and ditzy Amanda.  Which one would align with Iris?  Would Britney's kid come back, looking like Delilah Ralston, trying to steal the guys in town?   I imagine that they both would have laughed off Paulina as having no power at all.  While Donna and Rachel kept each other up to date with tea served by  Louise and Brooks' granddaughter; from their artisinal barn, which had been the stable. It could have been the establishment of a good reboot.

2 hours ago, tune_in_tomorrow said:

I agree with everyone else here that killing Sally off was a mistake. It was certainly a shocker as she had driven story for several years prior to that. There were so many unnecessary deaths in the 80s but most of them weren't leading characters, at least not for long. The other character besides Alice that should have been around for the last decade was Nancy. Jane Cameron made a couple of brief returns at Mac's and Ada's funerals but if she didn't want to return full-time, they could have easily replaced her. I liked her a lot on the show, but she was far from Irreplaceable. I think she would have made a lot more sense in some of the shenanigans than Paulina did.

 

The character of Paulina- another forgotten illegitimate child of Mac Cory's was not even necessary on the show. Cali Timmins/ Judi Evans could have been a recast for Nancy McGowan, and their storylines could have played out as Nancy.  Nancy always had a crush on Jake so it would make sense that she could have been in Jake's storylines the way Paulina was.  Also, when Joe Carlino was introduced on the show, they made a point of saying that Joe went to high school with Nancy.  And I'm sure Nancy would not have been pleased that Rachel married Carl- the man that tried to kill both Rachel and Nancy.

20 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

It seems when Jennifer Runyon left the role of Sally.. that her function got transfered to Cecile since when she quit.. Sally was flirting with Cass and casually dating Peter while Donna looked down on her.  Even though the brief replacement and than Mary Page Keller played being with Peter.. she was eventually moved out of that orbit while Cecile was placed in that orbit.

There were too many recasts of Sally Frame.  I thought Julie Phillips did a remarkable job as coming back as rebellious teen Sally after Cathy Greene.  Jennifer Runyon run as Sally was just not real and she was naive and too girly.  Just not Sally Frame at all.  However,  I loved Mary Page Keller playing the role.  The blonde who always played Sally now had dark hair and eyes and a completely different person.  You gotta love soaps changing an entire person but she worked well with the audience.  Taylor Miller was terrible as Sally and she should not have been killed off and I bet had she not been killed,  MPK would have probably come back later in the years.   

On 1/6/2019 at 8:14 PM, Paul Raven said:

For the 25th anni, Alice could have easily had a fantasy of being re-united with Steve, thus allowing Courtney and Reinholt to be together one last time.

 

The Cory set was impressive, although there needed to be an front entrance.

I always said that and I think I even wrote it out here that they never had a scene with Steve and Alice.  So Stupid that they did a scene with Jamie and Steve .  Not stupid storyline but that fact the actor playing the role at the time was not the one when Reinholt was on playing Steve.  No chemistry.  I think the show did not want to focus on guests during the 25th anniversary and all about the current characters.  The anniversary show really was all about Rachel and I think making Alice a focus was not on their agenda nor did they probably want to ruffle feathers with VW.  I think I recall hearing the JC and GR had frequent run ins on the set during the 70's and VW was possibly one of them.  What goes on behind the scenes no one ever knows.  VW was their prime star at the time and they would never jeopardize that..  

On 1/5/2019 at 7:34 AM, watson71 said:

 

I agree with you 100% about the show's misuse of Courtney in 1984-85.  The ironic thing about the March 25, 1985, episode is that we may never know who was responsible for writing that great Rachel/Alice scene.  The WGA was on strike from March 5th to March 19th of that year over writer royalties that would be received from videocassette recordings.  Whoever was responsible for the scene should have been made headwriter of AW because both actresses were great and the history was accurate and succinct.  When the writers returned from the strike, Tomlin was no longer the headwriter and was replaced by Sam Hall and Gillian Spencer who were terrible.  They had Larry involved in the Miami Vice storyline about a disco, the whole Le Soleil storyline with a lot of new characters no one cared about, Carl's quest to find that Egyptian treasure, the deadly dust in the urn that was passed from character to character in Bay City, and the very miscast Taylor Miller replacing Mary Page Keller as Sally.  The only storyline that Hall and Spencer did well was the introduction of Victoria as Marley's twin.

I think what most people seem to forget is recasting roles and dislike of actors who play them is not usually up the writer.  That is the producers job.  they either hire or fire people.  With regard to JC, Harding Lemay made it clear he did not like her and I believe since he was such a success with AW that Rauch fired her just do to his distaste for her.  Also, Lemay had nothing to do with George Reinholt firing.  Rauch made it clear he wanted him gone and Lemay just wrote him off

I’m currently in the August 1980 episodes and at this point Cecile is a main character. IIRC two actresses played her. I know she became incredibly popular when the second actress was in the role, but the original was excellent! She’s one of my favorite parts of these episodes. Considering how well liked the recast was I can’t wait to see her. 

 

Right now the story is that Pat is an alcoholic and has taken a break from her job at Brava and ace Ike has taken her job and is doing all sorts of manipulations. This is the first new story I’ve taken to mainly because of the two actresses. Of course I still love anything with Rachel, Mac or Ada. A lot of the male characters are nondescript. There’s a rich female character who keeps interfering with Rachel and Mac’s lives and she seems like a clear Iris replacement. Not nearly as smart or as interesting of course.