The Politics Thread

[Juliajms]

And this!  The Paul Ryan faction of the party know Trump is a danger and embarrassment, but they'll do anything to get their agenda through.

[DRW50]

Wow about Ryan Lizza. I've been reading his work for years. 

 

The New Republic seems to producer some real scuzzballs and nightmares. Even before these harassment reveals, you would hear about some awful people working there.

[MichaelGL]

Putting aside all the points you listed, don’t you just think it’s a bit jarring, unlike any president before him, the way Trump personally attacks private citizens both before and after the election?

During the election you have him advising his followers to look into the past of a particular Miss Universe for a sex tape. When he became president, you have him calling private citizens S.O.B.’s, demanding others to be fired from their jobs, or just recently labeling one as “dumb”. Most notably you have him going after the families of two fallen soldiers. He even politicized the act of presidents contacting families of fallen soldiers by claiming Obama rarely did it, then in a complete 180 claiming someone told him this. The list goes on and on…

 

I’m not going to shout you down, something that you state has happened on numerous occasions when you’ve made similar comparisons in the past, but I am seriously puzzled when faced with what I have listed above, that the left’s criticism of Trump is still somehow considered as being the same when the roles were reversed for the last 8 years.

[JaneAusten]

I want to remind people of something, Obama the president of half the country left office with a 61% approval rating. last time I looked 61% is significantly higher than 50%.  Lets continue. GWB left office with a 28% approval ratings, Bill Clinton yes Bill Clinton is the only president in recent years to leave with an approval rating higher than his wifes(ie who got the blame for his sexual exploits) but he did leave office with a surplus and booming economy and his rating was 63%, GHWB left office with a 53% approval. So it appears to me which party represents half the country and in GWB's case much less than half.

 

Obama also pushed a healthcare program that was pushed by republican Romney in Massachusetts in an attempt to win over some GOP support. He talked to them, Susan Collins was actually on one of the main committees, adopted over 100 GOP amendments and he was rewarded with NO GOP votes,

Edited December 12, 2017 by JaneAusten

[marceline]

 

What I find interesting is that the poster is more concerned with judging the tenor of opposition instead of judging Trump on his actions. I mean 45 is out setting the world on fire, our embassies around the world are readying themselves for attacks and this guy is like "Stop being mean to Grandpa!!"

 

Here's the difference. Obama opposition was based on his race. The opposition to Trump is based on his policies and his general unfitness.

[Vee]

Apparently talking about race, or bigotry, - or making white America face a changing world, or simply not being white - means 'only governing half the country'.

 

And to be clear, Obama used EOs after it was clear the GOP would never willingly govern responsibly or meet him at the table for anything. They made it clear from the day he became President-Elect that their only strategy and goal was to obstruct him and run him out of office. McConnell said that when Obama was first elected. By contrast, the GOP both pre- and post-Obama has used EOs to subvert the rule of law. Pretending it's the same is a sop to wounded white ego (and I am, for the record, plenty white).

 

But the truth is we can throw all the actual facts we want at this argument and there is no point. Once a conservative has their alternative facts made up in their mind, it's about pride. Not reality. Admitting they're not the same would mean one side has a net loss. That is not acceptable in far too many people's minds these days.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Vee

[Roman]

https://www.rawstory.com/2017/12/rex-tillerson-admits-to-us-diplomats-in-private-meeting-that-russia-interfered-with-2016-election-report/
 

and BTW...I have put that person on ignore, because this person is not interested in listening and reaching some type of understanding....they just want everyone to agree with them. 

[marceline]

 

Yeah, I know. It would be nice if we had a few conservatives in this thread to vary up perspectives but at this point no principled conservative could defend the Republican party. I have been impressed with some of the NeverTrump Republicans who have called out not just Trump but their party. If you had told me a few years ago that I would be a fan of Jennifer Rubin, Rick Wilson and Bill Kristol, I would've called you insane. But like Steve Schmidt says now is the time to form a coalition of the decent.

[Juliajms]

I'll never understand how people can say President Obama was only President to half the country and then claim to not be racist.  He tried to be President to everyone.  He did more for the working class of all races than Trump ever will.  Conservatives are always saying how divisive he was, but what action did he ever take that was divisive? His mere existence as a black man doesn't count.

[GMac]

 

+1

 

Besides, how does one profess to be a liberal and supportive of President Obama when he was in office to being Pro-Trump?!?!?  Not over policy, perhaps a change of heart on abortion?  Not over foreign policy, maybe believing a harsher stance to North Korea?  Not over the economy, jobs, environment, immigration, The Wall?  Nope.  

 

But because of what they perceive as the left being overly critical of him  

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Yea, right.

 

[JaneAusten]

Additional stats on White Evangelical erosion from the Trump base

 

https://shareblue.com/after-cheerleading-for-a-pedophile-trumps-white-evangelical-support-drops-double-digits/

[DRW50]

 

That's an interesting article, although I think they would have been better off not mentioning Moore in the title as I doubt that's why Trump lost evangelical support. I'd say it's because he's so crude day in and day out but that's being too generous to a group who have lost their way. 

 

This is off topic to your post but I'm dreading the inevitable navel-gazing media pieces when Moore wins big tonight, about how we don't understand real Americans and how Democrats need to get religion and how they just aren't doing it right, what a win for Trump, and how this proves the danger of accusing men of harassment, and on and on and on.

[DramatistDreamer]

[Vee]

Horse Twitter comes for Roy Moore.

[Roman]

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/12/after-crude-trump-tweet-rnc-sends-out-opposition-research-attacking-kirsten-gillibrand/