Let's just say I wouldn't hold my breath for MY state to ratify it.  

6 hours ago, JaneAusten said:

Illinois has a Democratic legislatute(not a super majority) and all democratic nominees for Governor here have vowed to sign it. This resurfaced here at the beginning of this year and there has been an active push by a number of groups to revisit it, led by the League of Women Voters. Our current idiot Governor who needs suburban white women in Chicago has never said he won’t but never has said he will either. 

 

Yeah, I was looking at the map and thinking that VA and IL are the only two states that I could realistically see signing on.  VA especially.

Does anyone actually believe that this would not backfire? What is he thinking?? 

 

Dear @BarackObama if there was any way you could swing it, a visit from you to Alabama could go a long way for the goodness of the Nation, and it’s higher angels. Please. #Alabama

— Mark Ruffalo (@MarkRuffalo) December 10, 2017

Yeah, any boost BO would bring to the Af-Am vote would be far outweighed by the anger he'd provoke from Alabama's right-wing segregationists, who'd be more motivated to turn out. It's not very smart.

Mark Ruffalo is a great actor and a cutie, I just don’t get why he and all of Hollywood have to opine on politics now.

 

i already can’t even look at Susan Sarandon anymore, which is a shame as Thelma & Louise was one of my favorite movies.

 

Things are getting worse and worse... I need people who oppose Trump to step back and think of whether or not the opposition to Trump is as psychotic as the opposition to Obama was. And if so, try to call people out to be more civil. I’m a long time poster here and I did support Obama for 8 years and Hillary in last year’s elections. But the way Democrats have acted in opposition to this president have pushed me right out. Morally, I can’t condone it. 

 

i honestly tried the first few months to say “hey guys, yeah we’re opposition, but it’s getting kind of crazy.” I got nothing but shouted down. Then I just got fed up and decided to support trump. And having been on both sides, I think liberals now are acting more psychotic than the tea party did in 2009-2010. 

 

Didnt you wonder when Republicans were demanding Obama’s birth certificate how none of the sane Republicans intervened and said “hey guys, you’re acting kind of crazy?” I dare you to go on twitter and do that to some of the far left conspiracy theories. You will see what I mean and why I feel I was shouted out of the Democratic Party. This party has swung far to the left, and it was very fast. 

Edited December 11, 20177 yr by juppiter

I don't equate Trump to Obama. Trump has never tried to be civil. Perhaps that is one of the reasons why the response has been so vehement.  I do think that the Bernie faction has helped steer the Democrats further left than they used to be. 

Obama, if you recall, also had detractors on the left as well. There were some things that Obama did not do, for various reasons but he achieved a great deal with a far different economy, one that was under duress.

Trump simply doesn't have the type of problems and challenges that Obama had.

Also, Obama didn't get into screaming matches with various people on twitter. 

Many of the things that said about Obama about 'death panels', etc were fallacies.  Sadly, many of the regressive policies that Trump promotes are not fiction, they're real.

I discuss politics passionately on this message board but as for social media, I have blocked any and all tweets from Trump. Unfortunately tweets about and from him still cross my TL.

 

I'm sorry but as a Black woman from an immigrant background, I was never going to support a president who is racist and xenophobic.  I don't have that luxury. 

I don't know what else to say but comparing Trump and Obama are non-starters for me. Trump has forever changed the presidency, he doesn't operate within the same rules of engagement and he gives as good as he gets.

He has shown that he has no interest in being the president of all, just some, it should come as no surprise that others who feel disrespected, do not feel the obligation to show him the type of deference usually afforded to a head of state.

He has been insulting right from the campaign and he persists in insulting people still, not just with words but with policy.  

The articles that I have read about what goes on behind the scenes at the White House are frightening and appalling. He still speaks to neo-fascists and alt-right. 

I don't know how anyone of good conscience is supposed to be cool with that.

 

By the way, Mark Ruffalo, in the past has also criticized Obama (as has Susan Sarandon).  Obama acted civilly to everyone, even to all of his detractors and didn't carry a persecution complex about it.  He just went on about doing his job.

Edited December 11, 20177 yr by DramatistDreamer

 

 

A highly rated and experienced diplomat wrote a fiery resignation to Rex Tillerson, complaining of how little regard the Trump administration has for the State Department and that it is driving the most experienced diplomats right out the door.

 

Star U.S. Diplomat Quits With Fiery Letter To Rex Tillerson

 

 

NEW: Women who have publicly accused President Trump of sexual harassment and assault will speak at a news conference, hosted by @bravenewfilms, Monday at 10:30 a.m. ET. The women are calling for an investigation by Congress of sexual misconduct by the president. pic.twitter.com/MSPevMF0os

— CBS News (@CBSNews) December 11, 2017

Edited December 11, 20177 yr by DramatistDreamer

Quote

I don't equate Trump to Obama. Trump has never tried to be civil. Perhaps that is one of the reasons why the response has been so vehement.  I do think that the Bernie faction has helped steer the Democrats further left than they used to be. 

Obama, if you recall, also had detractors on the left as well. There were some things that Obama did not do, for various reasons but he achieved a great deal with a far different economy, one that was under duress.

Trump simply doesn't have the type of problems and challenges that Obama had.

Also, Obama didn't get into screaming matches with various people on twitter. 

Many of the things that said about Obama about 'death panels', etc were fallacies.  Sadly, many of the regressive policies that Trump promotes are not fiction, they're real.

I discuss politics passionately on this message board but as for social media, I have blocked any and all tweets from Trump. Unfortunately tweets about and from him still cross my TL.

 

I'm sorry but as a Black woman from an immigrant background, I was never going to support a president who is racist and xenophobic.  I don't have that luxury. 

I don't know what else to say but comparing Trump and Obama are non-starters for me. Trump has forever changed the presidency, he doesn't operate within the same rules of engagement and he gives as good as he gets.

He has shown that he has no interest in being the president of all, just some, it should come as no surprise that others who feel disrespected, do not feel the obligation to show him the type of deference usually afforded to a head of state.

He has been insulting right from the campaign and he persists in insulting people still, not just with words but with policy.  

The articles that I have read about what goes on behind the scenes at the White House are frightening and appalling. He still speaks to neo-fascists and alt-right. 

I don't know how anyone of good conscience is supposed to be cool with that.

 

By the way, Mark Ruffalo, in the past has also criticized Obama (as has Susan Sarandon).  Obama acted civilly to everyone, even to all of his detractors and didn't carry a persecution complex about it.  He just went on about doing his job.

 

I know I am not quoting properly but my browser is not cooperating. I am quoting as well as I can. First of all, you have failed to look inward as I requested. Republicans circa 2008-2009 searched Obama for anything they could find. "He is just reading off teleprompters" was a particularly obnoxious thing. "He plays golf too much" was another. I mean, come on, you failed to examine yourself as I asked. Is not "Trump watches too much TV" and "Trump plays too much golf" just as ridiculous as "Obama reads off teleprompters" and "Obama plays too much golf?"

 

And all the other things you said. "Trump never tries to be civil." Republicans said THE EXACT SAME THINGS about Obama. "Oh, but it's true now." No, you need to do as I said and really look inside your movement.  Same with where you said "Trump has forever changed the presidency." Can you not go back in time and for god's sake be objective and realize Republicans said the exact damn same thing about Obama?

 

You will justify all this in your mind and say Trump is really, truly, different, but I can tell you it is not the case. Obama was President for half the country. He was more than happy to rule by Executive Order, bypassing congress. Trump is now president and he is getting the exact same criticism the Tea Party lobbed at Obama.

 

I'm done with Obama. He was a bad president. I don't like the Republicans or Democrats. I am super satisfied with Trump as President calling everyone on their bullshit.

The Democratic opposition to Trump is a parody of the Republican opposition to Obama.

 

I am not part of it. If it was wrong and extreme then, it is wrong and extreme now.

Edited December 11, 20177 yr by juppiter

2 hours ago, juppiter said:

it is wrong and extreme now

 

I disagree. Because this is not merely a guy that is doing a bad job - which he is. This is a guy that has:

Pledged support to a pedophile running for a Senate seat.

Said he liked to grab women's p*****s.

Said that the white supremacists in Charlottesville were "some good people".

 

And I can go on. The point is, Obama did NOTHING to deserve the hatred he got, simply because he was *gasp* a black man elected POTUS.

 

Trump mocks the disabled. He demeans women. He is a racist POS. So the hatred HE inspires is more than well deserved. And it should not be normalized. His approval rating is a whopping 32%. Base be damned.

 

To equate Trump and Obama is insulting so as to be laughable.

7 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Does anyone actually believe that this would not backfire? What is he thinking?? 

 

In this case I think the racists are very motivated anyway, but what bothers me is the implication that Obama needs to help come and rally black voters. Yes, black voters should turn out, if voter suppression even allows them, but the truth is that they are a minority in Alabama, and that when most of the white voters are unabashed bigots, they are going to carry the day. There is always a rush to blame black voters and put all the focus on them in instances like these which seems very misguided and simplistic. The media doesn't want to talk about that, because it's not a sexy story, and it also doesn't sow division, which the media loves to do (with Democrats anyway - they see the Republicans as their forever friends). And the Democratic Party goes along with it because it means the elites don't have to question their own methods. 

3 hours ago, DRW50 said:

 

In this case I think the racists are very motivated anyway, but what bothers me is the implication that Obama needs to help come and rally black voters. Yes, black voters should turn out, if voter suppression even allows them, but the truth is that they are a minority in Alabama, and that when most of the white voters are unabashed bigots, they are going to carry the day. There is always a rush to blame black voters and put all the focus on them in instances like these which seems very misguided and simplistic. The media doesn't want to talk about that, because it's not a sexy story, and it also doesn't sow division, which the media loves to do (with Democrats anyway - they see the Republicans as their forever friends). And the Democratic Party goes along with it because it means the elites don't have to question their own methods. 

 

The media doesn't want to talk about many things, they simplify the narrative to the most basic criteria, therefore many people have a simplistic view of topics, especially in politics. 

 

I've been mentioning voter intimidation and suppression since before the election and many people didn't want to discuss it but it is real and it is active.  

Alabama for example has closed DMVs in areas with concentrated Black populations while they simultaneously implemented a strict voter I.D. law.

 

As for Ruffalo, I wouldn't be surprised if his tweet (Trump has made tweets outsized declarations now) were being used for some last minute campaigning and fundraising. The GOP is always decrying 'elitist Hollywood'.  He's entitled to his views and opinions like anyone else but he seems misguided here. 

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and I don't want to keep going in circles but I will have to simply agree to disagree with you @juppiter.

Anyone who is reading beyond the superficial news that the media chooses to focus on daily knows that the Trump administration is doing real and lasting damage.  Scott Pruitt's changes to the EPA are creating lasting damage by undoing protections for the air and water quality, as well as land.

The way that the Trump has gone into overdrive to remake the federal bench is horrifying.

This is unprecedented (or "unpresidented" as Trump would tweet). Perhaps this is why the response has been unprecedented. It's not just words, with the Trump administration, it is also actions that are doing lasting damage.

Edited December 11, 20177 yr by DramatistDreamer

39 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

As for Ruffalo, I wouldn't be surprised if his tweet (Trump has made tweets outsized declarations now) were being used for some last minute campaigning and fundraising. The GOP is always decrying 'elitist Hollywood'.  He's entitled to his views and opinions like anyone else but he seems misguided here. 

 

Ruffalo is in the same bubble a lot of the far lefties are in. They keep thinking that some magic figure can move mountains. There's no logic, no strategy, just the idea that they have all the answers. They don't pay any attention to reality and think they can simply change things through force of will. That's why they latch on to simplistic ideas like Medicare for all or the "fight for $15" without ever thinking about the details. Then they turn around and call those of us who actually care about policy "sellouts" and "establishment."

People keep trying to make the criticisms against Trump a Democrat thing while slyly forgetting to mention that many Republicans have become staunchly anti-Trump.

@juppiter you may want to take a look at this. It's not simply along party lines. Personally, I don't see Franken coming back but I posted this because I think it's interesting that a Republican views Trump as a serious threat and he's not the only one, by the way.

 

 

Former Minn Gov Arne Carlson, a two-term Republican, says Dem Sen. Al Franken should rescind his planned resignation, pending Ethics probe. An excerpt of his commentary: pic.twitter.com/i0JMm7NXst

— Brian Bakst (@Stowydad) December 10, 2017

9 hours ago, juppiter said:

The Democratic opposition to Trump is a parody of the Republican opposition to Obama.

 

I am not part of it. If it was wrong and extreme then, it is wrong and extreme now.

 

What specifically is wrong and extreme about the response to Donald Trump? I'll wait.

Speaking of lasting damage:

 

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/11/trump-welfare-reform-safety-net-288623

 

The one good thing I can say is that Trump is so clumsy and so obvious that it helps to galvanize people more than a slicker, more "moderate" Republican would, but I just wish I could believe that anything will change or improve in upcoming elections. I still remember how many insisted Democrats would have landslides because of Trump. 

9 hours ago, juppiter said:

The Democratic opposition to Trump is a parody of the Republican opposition to Obama.

 

I am not part of it. If it was wrong and extreme then, it is wrong and extreme now.

 

There are things that are wrong and inappropriate (like the people who go in for all kinds of speculation about his youngest son). The rest I'd say is par for the course.

 

What bothers me with criticism of Trump is less about extremity and more about how shallow and self-parodying so much of it is. It's a certain smugness that is used a cudgel against those who oppose Trump. All the hee hee and ha ha over Melania's Christmas decorations - I roll my eyes. 

 

I saw Chelsea Handler mention Trump as some sort of connection when she was evacuating from her home in the wildfires. To be fair, she's losing her home, so she has a right to lash out, but all I could think was how much it sounded like the notorious, "Thanks Obama!" that so many on the left used to make fun of.