The Politics Thread

[marceline]

One of the things I've found most disgusting about the "replace Biden" op is the utter lack of respect and appreciation for what Biden is trying to do. He could've retired and spent his days working on his brain cancer foundation. Instead he brought us back from COVID, saved the economy, made real changes in climate policy, etc... and people want to throw him out after one bad night.

[Maxim]

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[janea4old]

 

[Maxim]

The media is doing a 180. It's scary to see. They've done it before... But everytime it's disgusting experience.

[DramatistDreamer]

The media has a long history of doing such things. If you go through archives of newspapers like the New York Times and other centuries old newspapers, you will see racist, sexist, xenophobic rhetoric and commentary in their headlines and in their articles. They have an explicit history of literally being on the wrong side of history. I remember, it being so bad that they had to issue a public apology on their racist reporting on Black people during the pre/post Emancipation period and the era of Jim Crow and the Civil Rights movement.

Yes, it’s scary (more like vexing to me personally) but not surprising for them. Considerably “on brand” for the media, in fact.

[DRW50]

Semafor, which is a big Beltway favorite, also has a piece out on how friendly the RNC is being to the media (even though Kari Lake and MTG, two hugely influential figures in the party, hurled abuse at the media). 

They really are trying to commit to the narrative of how safe the GOP is, as they were given such a lifeline with Trump's supposed attack. I wonder if it's working or not. I don't get the sense there's a ton of interest in the convention. I did hear a lot of talk about how dull JD Vance was and how visibly unhappy Trump was as he spoke. 

Speaking of which...

Trump’s campaign has given no official info about his medical care following assassination attempt | PBS News

Edited July 18, 2024 by DRW50

[marceline]

I can't find the comments that led to this but I'm going to take a guess.

Let's be very clear about something, Donald Trump is a threat to the entire world. If that assassination attempt had been successful, half the planet would've breathed a giant sigh of relief, myself included. If that makes me a bad person so be it. If Putin or Xi or MBS got eliminated the world would celebrate. The same is true for Trump.

A lot of folks seem to not understand the concept of us or them. 

Meanwhile the funeral for the guy killed at the Trump rally is today and the press doesn't GAF. 

[Vee]

I just hope people on the inside know exactly what they're buying if a succession happens. Nancy Pelosi is a machine and her only calculus is winning, so if she is actually suggesting Joe go she must know much more than I do. But getting Joe Biden across the finish line against Trump is not the same thing as getting Kamala Harris there. It is not one size fits all, and the fact is that on the ground I suspect a huge portion of the base is still very much behind Joe despite what has gone on online and in Washington. We have all either known or for some of us learned more than once in the last 4-5 years that when it comes to Biden, online is most definitely not the real world.

People are underestimating Biden yet again IMO, even if I feel the WH has handled much of the last few weeks poorly re: criticism and intra-party strife as well as public appearances. But if Joe's luck runs out this time the entire party had all better be prepared to shore up that unhappy base out there in the real world and make it clear Kamala is his heir. This kind of lift at this very late date will take everything we've ever had and more. She does not have the institutional and historical love from casual and disengaged or some yes, stupid voters that Joe has had for decades (the same things those idiots at The Onion now flagellate themselves for promoting because they didn't help Bernie to win a primary). And she has generational racism, sexism and media dislike against her. Not as much as Hillary did, no woman does, but it is going to be a lift. I think we can do it, but it is going to be tough. So if this is what's going down, people better be ready to play hard.

[DRW50]

This country is so racist and sexist, I just struggle to ever see her winning. I don't even know if Obama would win in today's America. She is certainly someone I'd be happy to vote for, I think she'd make a good President, but I don't see it happening. She has had a constant barrage of hate and mockery for years and that will quickly fill the media for those who still don't know who she is (as many don't ever know who the VP is). I tend to wonder how many who are pushing Biden out are in a dream because they live in places like California, where memories of the Tom Bradley loss are presumably far away. I wonder if all those in Congress who are talking about the harm downballot realize how many in their districts and states are too bigoted and misogynist to ever support Harris.

If Biden had had more public support before the debate, then I don't think it would be such a crisis for some in the party, but the bottom fell out around 2021 and many were already willing to dump him if the midterms hadn't gone as well as they did. They seemed to be willing to grit their teeth until the debate. And some still are. Some others do genuinely support him. But those who never did are now, much too late, trying to finally speak up. 

I don't know if his team, or whoever else in the party is with them, still fully understands the pressures or consequences. I saw Politico was claiming that Hillary Scholten, after saying Biden should go, was briefly removed from a Biden campaign and state party effort to elect candidates. Some were cheering this, but she's in a district and a state that there's a very strong chance Biden will lose, so I don't blame her for trying to save herself (it bothers me more when people are nasty about it, like Julian Castro was in the debates). That they didn't see this and instead just created more bad blood for themselves in the party doesn't seem great.

It's a very hellish choice because I think Biden could keep it close, which I can't say for Harris or Gavin Newsom or other potential candidates, but the Biden in debates, or interviews, or struggling to get in a car, is the image people seem likely to remember, and the one repeated back to them every hour of every day. And I don't know if that can be overcome, especially with some of the people around him. 

[NothinButAttitude]

This is what I am concerned about what'll happen if Biden steps down: 

 

[Vee]

In an imaginary world I think Obama can and would take it today, four years ago and four years before that. But he's done and he has every right to be. I do think Joe Biden has been haunted by Obama (allegedly) convincing him to give HIllary the baton in '16, and feeling that if he'd run he'd have won and averted so much of what's come since. I think Joe may be right about that. But we can't change it and we're not there now.

People do not hate Kamala Harris a fraction as much as they ever did Hillary Clinton. But they also don't know her as much. Putting her over to the base will not be difficult IMO, it's the saggy middle or lazy low-info voters that concern me.

I don't see evidence of that back then tbh. I don't remember any drumbeat to get rid of him in those years. But if people really wanted him out the time to mount a case was long ago, and they never did to my notice or a lot of the general public's.

[Juliajms2]

I've had this thought many times. He didn't have to run in 2020. He could have spent the last four years on Rehobeth Beach with his grandkids. Now here he is in 2024 trying to save us again. I really can't believe Pelosi and Schumer were so open with their opinions. They obvious allowed the news to leak in order to create more pressure.

[Vee]

Schumer was astonishingly bold, but supposedly Biden doesn't trust or at least have a super close relationship with either Schumer or Jeffries so I wasn't entirely surprised. Pelosi works much more carefully. The fact that this is leaking from her is deliberate, and makes me think she must know more than we do. Not about Biden's competency but about numbers.

I can't fault her actions if those numbers are real, but if we all survive this experience there will be a story told one day about how Joe was pushed out and it will likely have many annals of shame.

[DRW50]

Sorry, I meant if Obama of 2008 tried to run today. I think the country has become even uglier than it was at that time. I would never expect him to run again even if he was legally able, after what he and his family had to go through.

It's difficult with Kamala because she isn't as hated but also doesn't seem to have the support Hillary had. In an ideal world she could win.

I felt like those plans were in the works if 2022 had gone another way, but the people who want him out now should have been more vocal at the time, yes. They seemed to just give up. I think many were either assuming Trump wouldn't get back in (bad idea) or were fine with Biden running and losing so they wouldn't have to face Trump themselves. Only lately has something - bad poll numbers for them rather than just him, it seems - shaken them up. But they need to ask themselves how many of the voters they do have left might be demoralized if they push Biden out. All of this is just a mess and makes me wonder who is even in charge. I don't want the party to be run by thugs and sociopaths craving power at all costs, like the GOP, but we shouldn't have gotten to this point. Whispers and nudges aren't enough.

[DramatistDreamer]

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