The Politics Thread

[Khan]

 

I wouldn't put it past that woman.

 

My favorite part of the USA Today article, which Eric posted upthread:

 

This isn’t about the policy differences we have with all presidents or our disappointment in some of their decisions. Obama and Bush both failed in many ways. They broke promises and told untruths, but the basic decency of each man was never in doubt.

 

And that, as Alanis Morrisette might say, is what it all comes down to.  No president has ever been able to please all of the American people all of the time.  But most presidents, from BOTH sides of the political aisle, have been able to conduct themselves while in office with SOME sense of dignity.  Trump just doesn't have that ability; and we are way past time realizing how detrimental that is to the security and survival of our country.

Edited December 13, 2017 by Khan

[DramatistDreamer]

 

Oh well.

 

via GIPHY

[Vee]

[DramatistDreamer]

Apparently, both sides of Congress have come up with some reconciled tax bill which, to no surprise, is said to favor the wealthy and corporations.

[dragonflies]

As a white woman, I am utterly ashamed at those who would vote for a pedophile, black women RULE!!!

 

 

[Juliajms]

I think it was Carl who mentioned abortion upthread. That issue really is one that holds our political system hostage. At times I forget how many people are stuck on it. Then a couple of days ago someone asked Ben Sasse about Roy Moore and he said "People can be against both partial birth abortion and pedophilia".  Basically equating Jones and Moore.

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[ReddFoxx]

Jones' strategy was better and smarter than that of any Democrat running in a southern state in a long time. He engaged the black electorate heavily and he targeted white educated suburban voters. The path to victory for Democrats just about everywhere now is through minorities and educated whites.

Edited December 13, 2017 by ReddFoxx

[JaneAusten]

Also millennials. I don't know what the turnout was for millennials but they voted 65% for Jones.

It's primarily a voting issue for white folks. There are lots of black women who are pro life but understand that many don't have the latitude to be one issue voters. And also Jones is not for partial birth abortion because it's illegal.

[ReddFoxx]

There was a surge in younger voters in Shelby County (suburban Birmingham), so that definitely helped.

Indeed. Black voters vote based on economics and civil rights, which is a far more strategic way of voting.

[Juliajms]

I know,  I was responding to Drangonflies.  White evangelicals are obsessed with it and I don't see any way to change that.  I guess over time there will be fewer of them, but its still a sticking point to progress.

[JaneAusten]

Oh sorry. I think the Evangelical Church if you read a couple of the articles I posted is going to be faced with their own reckoning. They have lost members over the past couple of years. I think one of the postings showed Trumps Evangelical support eroding and that was prior to the Roy Moore election and endorsement.  Like the many institutions failing our society, the White Evangelical Church is right up there.

 

I think you may see a lot of the same that happened with the Catholic church in this country after their own scandals, a come to Jesus moment. Yes lots of people stayed with the church but many like me left. And I think you have seen a shift in the church from non acceptance to tolerance and acceptance for those now who are not 100% on board with everything the church stands with. Keep in mind it was a choice the church did not have. They had to move in that direction or risk losing more members and not being able to attract more or at least encourage former members to return. And I think Pope Francis's appointment was a deliberate choice aligned with those things in mind.

 

Like politics I think you need younger leaders in the church that recognize this and push for change.

 

 

By the way a good article in WaPo on White vs Black Evangelicals and what White non evangelicals in Alabama voted Jones by 29%

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2017/12/13/there-was-an-enormous-gap-between-black-evangelical-voters-and-white-evangelical-voters-in-alabama/?utm_term=.c5a66087e816

Edited December 13, 2017 by JaneAusten

[Khan]

As I wrote on my FB page, black voters, in general, understand that it isn't about voting for the candidate you like.  But it IS about voting for the candidate whom you think will get the s**t done.  Plain and simple.

[JaneAusten]

[DRW50]

I read some tweets from black voters in Alabama who complained about Jones' campaign doing a poor job with the community, and making it clear they were just voting against Moore. In a way I feel like it was unfair to take black voters for granted and just assume fear and anger toward Moore was enough. Yet I also wonder how much he could do, realistically. And I wonder if he should do more, even though he is likely losing in 2 years, to help encourage these loyal voters who have to go through so much to even cast a vote, for the sake of the party in Alabama down the line.

 

I used to think Democrats needed to try to find a message to bring everyone together if possible, beyond the right wing extremists who will never listen. Between the many who essentially spat in Obama's face even as he begged them to keep what he fought for intact, whether it be through staying home, voting third party, or going around encouraging others to not fight hard right candidates because in the long run it will "wake up" Americans, I don't really believe that anymore. I'm starting to think that the micro-targeting and threading the needle that the Democrats were trying to do in recent campaigns may not be the worst idea - the main problem is that as with Hillary's campaign, they just didn't do it very well. 

 

Either way, I think the last few elections have shown there are some voters who on paper should be reached but clearly do not want to be reached, and it's time for the Democratic Party to begin leaving them behind and focusing on the voters who will turn up and just need more encouragement and support.

Edited December 13, 2017 by DRW50

[Roman]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/wh-withdrawing-trump-judicial-pick-who-has-never-tried-a-case-report/ar-BBGHPpI