34 minutes ago, Khan said:

 

Am I wrong or didn't Bill Clinton also criticize at least parts of the ACA during the campaign?

 

Say what you will about Bill, but when it comes to politics, the letch knows what he is talking about.  (Same goes for John Edwards.  He was probably the first to talk about the economic divide that would take over this country way back when he ran for the Democratic nomination, before the baby mama drama effectively killed his career.)

 

The thing with Bill is he's good at criticizing the plans of others, but his own plans were all over the place as POTUS. 

2 minutes ago, dragonflies said:

If they're getting skittish about it, might be because of the backlash, yeah alot hate it, but for the most part it has helped alot of people.

The ACA needs work and tweaked but it's a step in the right direction.

And had the ACA been a GOP idea and passed under Bush the GOP would have fought tooth and nails to make it better. It's like Ted Kennedy said years later after Nixon proposed a NHC program and the dems pushed back because it wasn't everything. The dems should have worked to help get it in place and then work over the next several years to make it better.

 

I do think the pushback is because so many people who want Obamacare gone thought it really would be replaced with something better because that's what the orange man told them. People need to start asking him WHERE his new plan is. He claimed he had one and now he's pointing to the GOP for their replacement(which they have none)

I don't think it's going anywhere honestly.

6 minutes ago, dragonflies said:

I don't think it's going anywhere honestly.

Me either. But I think those that feel hopeless need to understand. It's likely at least partially due to the work of many who have gotten the word out encouraging people to contact their reps and senators. There are now a list of GOP senators and house members who are against repealing it without a replacement and I firmly believe that's due to pushback from constituents. I'm working with a committee on the ACA which has been going strong since late November because we knew it was the first thing the GOP planned to tackle. And that effort has been happening nationwide. Your own Senator should show you that they actually do pay attention to these issues when their core base pushes back. Calls and letters to your reps and senators make a difference.

Edited January 10, 20178 yr by JaneAusten

28 minutes ago, dragonflies said:

If they're getting skittish about it, might be because of the backlash, yeah alot hate it, but for the most part it has helped alot of people.

The ACA needs work and tweaked but it's a step in the right direction.

I think the major problem here is that it would take a pretty big transfer of wealth to make the ACA work for more people. People up thread have asked why we can't make single payer work in the US and that's basically the reason.  Europe has a much higher tax rate. The rich obviously don't want to be taxed more in the US. Don't get me started on the middle and lower classes who refuse to band together and make the rich pay more.

 

So truly, if we can't tax the rich to make the ACA affordable to anyone but the poor, were does the money come from? I'd much rather see the debt increase then kick people off their health care. Maybe we can hope that's the direction the Republicans will go in rather than take away a benefit that people have become accustomed to and facing the political fallout.

 

Bill Clinton was an amazing prexy economy was fabulous. He did criticize it. Its need a total replacement revamp. I loved Bill and loathed his wife lol. 

so what do you tell the 30 million on the ACA? "[!@#$%^&*] outta luck for you"?

Bill O'Reilly turns my stomach.

 

Onto a palate cleanser:

 

Remember when many of us were discussing the Chinese economy over the weekend?  This is an interesting addendum.

 

Chinese official: Economy grew about 6.7% in 2016

1 hour ago, Juliajms said:

I think the major problem here is that it would take a pretty big transfer of wealth to make the ACA work for more people. People up thread have asked why we can't make single payer work in the US and that's basically the reason.  Europe has a much higher tax rate. The rich obviously don't want to be taxed more in the US. Don't get me started on the middle and lower classes who refuse to band together and make the rich pay more.

 

So truly, if we can't tax the rich to make the ACA affordable to anyone but the poor, were does the money come from? I'd much rather see the debt increase then kick people off their health care. Maybe we can hope that's the direction the Republicans will go in rather than take away a benefit that people have become accustomed to and facing the political fallout.

 

There's also the problem that healthcare is a market that just keeps exploding in regards to cost. It's a for profit industry that doesn't really care at all about it's consumers, patients or sick people. They just want to make money. I don't necessarily think the problem is just taxation, it's that the healthcare industry doesn't want healthcare to be affordable, or work for everyone. That's why the costs keep escalating. A lot of people belief that the ACA is the reason for their increased health costs and bills, but it's really just the messenger or something that has been escalating at a great rate for years now.

 

2 hours ago, Juliajms said:

In something like 20 years. That's a long time to wait. A lot of irrevocable damage can be done in that time.  Not to mention when 29% of Latino men vote for Trump, that tells me that as they move up the economic ladder they aren't necessarily going to stick with Democrats on mass. Not that I necessarily blame people for voting their own interests, I'm just saying I think it's a huge mistake to take anyone for granted.

 

I was reading an article, and I agree with it, it basically said that the floor for Republican voters is going to be around 20-30% with Latino voters, which makes sense. Not everyone is going to have Republicans with a fervor. It's just not in the cards. The solidly liberal camp is only but maybe 15-20% of Americans, and then we start delving further into the spectrum of left leaning, moderate, and right leaning. If these latino voters stay in this 20% I don't think that's much of an issue. The Hispanic/Latino population is diverse, and you have some that have internalized hatred for their race, and others who are angry with undocumented immigrants because they feel they got over when they didn't. That kind of infighting can't really be helped. You also have segments of the population who can "pass" for white or who have accumulated a sense of economic status like Cubans who left Castro - and they feel they belong to that demographic more then those who recognize their diversity and true heritage. Colorism is alive in all races. Some feel they can "pass" for white, and they would rather indulge that belief. As white-Hispanics grow in the population this may happen. But there is more growth outside of the latinx/Hispanic demographic.

Oh goody. A new bad thing I didn't consider has popped up. Trump is an antivaxxer and RFK Jr. is on his side.

 

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/01/donald-trump-rfk-steamy-on-set-romance

13 minutes ago, Juliajms said:

Oh goody. A new bad thing I didn't consider has popped up. Trump is an antivaxxer and RFK Jr. is on his side.

 

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/01/donald-trump-rfk-steamy-on-set-romance

 

I swear to god everyday I learn something new about American politics. I had no idea that anti-vaxxing was a thing outside of religious circles. Are these people against all vaccines or just MMR?

32 minutes ago, Juliajms said:

Oh goody. A new bad thing I didn't consider has popped up. Trump is an antivaxxer and RFK Jr. is on his side.

 

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/01/donald-trump-rfk-steamy-on-set-romance

And there goes the respect I had for him.

9 minutes ago, AdelaideCate007 said:

 

I swear to god everyday I learn something new about American politics. I had no idea that anti-vaxxing was a thing outside of religious circles. Are these people against all vaccines or just MMR?

Reminds me of cult followers....if they hear it from two or more people they believe the BS. shame really....so many families and children will be in danger without vaccines. 

20 minutes ago, AdelaideCate007 said:

 

I swear to god everyday I learn something new about American politics. I had no idea that anti-vaxxing was a thing outside of religious circles. Are these people against all vaccines or just MMR?

Read this, it will blow your mind. It's in large part wealthy, educated parents who are the problem.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2008/09/vaccine-skeptics-vs-your-kids

35 minutes ago, Skin said:

Colorism is alive in all races.

 

Yep.

 

Anti-vaxxers are like climate change deniers: no amount of scientific evidence or consensus among experts on the subject will ever change their minds.  And that's their right.  Just as it's MY right to vaccinate my kids (should I ever have any) against whatever diseases THEIR kids will undoubtedly spread because they weren't vaccinated.  So, unless and until the anti-vaxxers succeed in doing away with vaccines altogether, I'm good, thank you.

21 minutes ago, Roman said:

Reminds me of cult followers....if they hear it from two or more people they believe the BS. shame really....so many families and children will be in danger without vaccines. 

 

Maybe that wouldn't be such a bad thing?  Not that I'm wishing for anyone, especially any children, to die.  But, you know, a few less stupid people in this world DOES affords some benefits to others.

12 minutes ago, Khan said:

 

Yep.

 

Anti-vaxxers are like climate change deniers: no amount of scientific evidence or consensus among experts on the subject will ever change their minds.  And that's their right.  Just as it's MY right to vaccinate my kids (should I ever have any) against whatever diseases THEIR kids will undoubtedly spread because they weren't vaccinated.  So, unless and until the anti-vaxxers succeed in doing away with vaccines altogether, I'm good, thank you.

 

Maybe that wouldn't be such a bad thing?  Not that I'm wishing for anyone, especially any children, to die.  But, you know, a few less stupid people in this world DOES affords some benefits to others.

Yeah, but the sad thing is there are people including children who can't be vaccinated due to cancer and other illnesses. Those people rely on herd immunity, which the anti-vexxers are compromising.

Edited January 10, 20178 yr by Juliajms