Knots Landing

[SoapDope]

Kenny and Ginger were detached from the main storylines like Lucy & Mitch on Dallas. 

I noticed in Season 1 that in several episodes they redressed the Ward's home set to serve as J.R.'s Petrolux office where Gary snoops in the files etc...I even found the Ward home drab and boring. They barely had any furniture.

I wonder if Jacobs and the other writers felt they made a mistake with casting Houghton and Lankford in those roles ? Since Jacobs wrote Gary & Val into Knots to make it a Dallas spin off, he should have just made a deal with Lorimar and had David & Janet Bradford from Eight is Enough be the fourth couple in the cul-de-sac after they got married.

 

[Khan]

As others have mentioned, David Jacobs and CBS's decision to spin Gary and Val off onto KNOTS knocked KNOTS itself off-balance.  For one, KNOTS already had a young couple in place with the Wards; the addition of the Ewings made the Wards redundant.  For another, because Gary and Val were coming from DALLAS, it only made sense to feature them as much as they did, since the assumption was many DALLAS fans would be tuning into the new show as well.  Between those two factors, the Wards, IMO, were doomed from the start.

IIRC, Jacobs always meant for KNOTS to revolve around four couples.  However, when the decision was made to spin off Gary and Val, Jacobs simply substituted them for one of the existing couples.

This, of course, begs the question: who was the original fourth couple, and why were they (and not the Wards) sacrificed for Gary and Val?

[SoapDope]

Around the same time Jacobs did a short lived series " Married The First Year" that only aired for 4 episodes in spring 1979. I wonder if the nixed KL couple made it into that series ? Some future KL and Dallas actors appeared in that. Constance McCashin said she was offered the role of Laura at Christmas 1978 and the pilot was shot in Feb 79.

Ted Shackelford said they filmed the rest of first season during summer 1979 and he actually met Larry, Patrick, and Charlene on KL before ever setting foot on the Dallas set. If you notice when they filmed the remarriage episode of Dallas, Ted's hair is shorter and he and Joan look a tad different from the KL pilot. 

I seem to remember reading years ago that the house used for Gary & Val's home belonged to someone who worked on the Dallas production crew and  Jacobs, Filerman etc were invited over there for get togethers. 

Edited July 10, 2024 by SoapDope

[Khan]

I know if *I* had created KNOTS, the fourth couple would have been an older couple - older than even Sid and Karen! - with grown children and maybe even grandchildren.

[SoapDope]

Kind of like the Lawrence's on Family ? Priscilla Pointer could have been a casting choice as the wife of the KL older couple instead of that one off episode about tormenting Ginger.  

[Franko]

Could it have been Earl and Judy Trent, or similar? Like Gary and Val, they would also be dealing with substance abuse.

[Vee]

That's a great idea all around from both of you.

[Khan]

Yeah, kind of.  They would've been one of the first couples to live on Seaview Circle.  He would've been a Korean War vet (and head of a very successful construction firm - the result of years of hard work and self-sacrifice - and a contrast to Richard Avery, who always grabbed at the brass ring and never quite caught it), and she would've been his high school sweetheart, who faces an existential crisis, unsure of her own identity, now that all their children have grown up and left the house.

And I like the idea of casting Priscilla Pointer as the wife, although I think I would have casted someone like Carroll Baker or Eva Marie Saint (...or even Julie Harris...) instead.

In a way, I wish KNOTS had remained the kind of show David Jacobs wanted it to be, but I know that the times weren't right (even in 1979, there were certain topics that TV execs just weren't going to touch) and I know, too, that Jacobs' ambitions for his creation didn't match his actual ability as a writer.

Edited July 11, 2024 by Khan

[SoapDope]

Carroll Baker & Eva Marie Saint would be excellent choices. Barbara Rush might have worked. Maybe Julie London post Emergency. 

It seems a lot of Jacobs visions and big ideas never panned out. He said that Pamela Barnes Ewing should have been the most fascinating character he ever created...even though he loved Victoria...she fell flat of what he envisioned. 

[Khan]

I tend to blame that on Leonard Katzman and his vision for DALLAS, which reduced the women (and many of the men) to little more than props for J.R.  He didn't see the complexities that Jacobs saw in his characters, only the archetypes.

[SoapDope]

Katzman had that "It's a man's world mentality"....He threw many of the cast members under the bus to cater to Hagman and Duffy. He even ran Phil Capice off the show and overrode Jacobs opinions on the shows direction "Like the stupid dream explanation. Duffy became even more insufferable after his return.

I have seen so many outtakes where Duffy and Hagman would screw up scenes in order to "Make A Funny"....here and there it would be OK to lighten things up, but to do that over and over during the freaking entire run holding up cast and crew from getting home on time after a long day, having to work overtime and wasting money. I would have ripped them a new one over that childish crap.  Imagine being an actor in the moment nailing a difficult or emotional scene and Duffy or Hagman screwing it all up to make a childish joke and losing your motivation. The re-take may not be as good as the first one might have been.

[Reverend Ruthledge]

Nobody knows what happened to Kenny and Ginger? 

[DRW50]

The last time Ginger was seen was in the 1997 reunion film. The script was heavily worked over by the actors as the original one apparently stunk, so I don't know what the plans were (I doubt there were ever any big plans for Ginger in it anyway, so her part likely stayed the same). She mentioned that she was now a lesbian, IIRC. I see that this page also has her saying Kenny was bad in bed.

Ginger Kilman Ward Jul 2024 (knotslanding.net)

Edited July 11, 2024 by DRW50

[Franko]

They moved to Nashville in 1983. While attending a cul-de-sac party in 1997, Ginger revealed she and Kenny were divorced because of his infidelity.

ETA: Whoa, I forgot about Ginger being a lesbian. Clearly a shoutout to one of the year's big TV events, "The Puppy Episode."

Edited July 11, 2024 by Franko

[SoapDope]

I don't remember her saying she was a lesbian. She showed up at Val's house for Karen and Mac's 15th Anniversary party. Karen tells Val Ginger and Kenny are divorced. Val replies " I know"...Karen jokes how come you knew and I didn't and Ginger tells Karen "  Relax, I told Val when she called". 

Ginger mentions she has had a few lovers and that it has been educational. She then says Kenny was a mediocre lover. Karen and Val look at each other and back to Ginger and say " Really ?"....Karen says " Kenny Kenny Kenny, No wonder he liked going after the young ones"...Ginger asks " What young ones"....Mac then interrupts to welcome her and Val glares at Karen behind Mac and Ginger....like your spilling the beans shhhhh.