ATWT: Week of July 28th

[Juliajms]

yeah, me too. Holden is certainly the worst person in this scenario. After all, he is the one who broke his vows, but Carly is far from innocent here. Holden didn't force her to do anything that she wasn't willing to do. She deserves to be told off as well. She was giving Lily marriage advice and helping her pick out nighties!! That is a huge betrayal to someone Carly has referred to as her best friend. Still it's hard for me to completely hate on Carly in this situation because she's used as the fall guy by TPTB so often. It seems contrived at this point. No one could keep on making these same huge, idiotic, self destructive mistakes over and over and over again. It's just not believable. It's time to give Carly a break and let another female step up and do the scheming that never works for awhile.

Yeah, but she the two situations just do not compare, imo. Holden has been leading Lily to believe that they could work things out, that honestly was his number one priority and that he was ready and willing to work on the marriage. Meanwhile, he's doing her best friend at their kid's day camp. Not really seeing how a little emotional attachment on Lily's part is equal to that. Dusty was her friend afterall and she had a right to help him. Holden was being a controlling ass at the time. Lily didn't ask how high when he said jump, so he decided he was done and then she slept with Dusty. Too bad she didn't divorce his sorry ass right then and there.

I'm not saying Lily is completely innocent because she should have seen the writing on the wall, but when people you trust are lying to you, that's not always easy to see it. I just pray to good they aren't going back to Lily and Holden when all is said and done.

[Soapsuds]

Ummm...have you read the latest spoilers. I was a big Holden and Lily fan. But I dont want Lily going back to Holden. Holden needs to do major groveling before that happens.

[Juliajms]

I'm going to read them now....I really need a huge break from those too groveling be damned. I want Lily to be married to someone else for at least a year or two.

OK were you referring to

or

I haven't seen anything else for Lily and Holden recently.

[P.J.]

I do think the two situations compare. I don't excuse what either Holden or Carly did. And Holden was a dirty, lying pig for repeatedly crawling back into Lily's bed.

Lily's friendship with Dusty has always been a thorne in Holden's side. It goes back more than twenty years. Every time Dusty got his butt in trouble (since Grayson took over the role) who was there being his friend? LILY. No matter what Holden said, it didn't matter that Dusty was now a troublesome THUG, Lily was there for him. (It didn't even matter that Dusty had slept with her neice Lucy, but they'll never address that little tidbit...) Now, if all that had gone on, and the wife you loved couldn't get a dead guy off her mind, hid his stuff from you, and needed "time" to clear her head even though he'd been dead for months and had cheated on her besides, after you were willing to take a murder wrap for her would you really trust that Lily had "suddenly" seen the light after a week or two at Iva's?

Neither Dusty or Carly is the "problem" in that marriage. It's the fact they haven't trusted each other in a long time.

I just wish TIIC would finally let Carly address the way Holden treated her. She doesn't have to have a public meltdown ala Lily---but it would be nice to hear Carly tell him some unvarnished truths, instead of mewling about how "good" he is.

Spoilers....heard'um. Wish I could get excited.

[Juliajms]

I think I would consider the fact that i pushed her straight into Dusty's arms by being a controlling ass. Lily only went for Dusty because Holden rejected her over and over. Dusty and Lily were friends since childhood. If that's a problem for Holden, then that's HIS problem. Holden had no right to dictate who she could be friends with or if she could help her friend out of a jam. Lily is his wife, not his child. And if he didn't believe she was over it and had seen the light than he shouldn't have taken her back.

[Soapsuds]

Yes, that is what I was referring to.

[Felix]

Honestly, there's nothing exciting me about the show right now. The only reason I watch every day is because, well, it's As The World Turns, and certainly the sky would fall if I were to miss an episode.

Lily/Holden

I think that there is so much wrong with this couple. First of all, they're both pretty detestable people. Lily as affairs, Holden has affairs, both of them play the "think of the children" card when it benefits them.

Also, these characters are completely disconnected from their pasts. Remember when Lily was a little rich girl, struggling to find her place in the world, and Holden was a farm boy who liked to stand outside naked during thunderstorms? Yeah, are those two still on the show? If someone who didn't watch ATWT asked you "who is Lily?" or "who is Holden?" what would you say? Lily is a whiny woman who wants deperately to save her marriage (until a few weeks ago), and Holden, well, he's Lily's husband. These aren't really characters. They are plot vessels. Think about it, would this story play out all that differently if Jack and Lily were the ones having the affair? I don't.

I think this of true of most characters on the show. Consider Emma. Longtime viewers will remember that Emma actually tolerated Meg's marriage to Tonio and Holden's marriage to Emily. Nowadays she pulls a shotgun on Paul when he walks into the house (depending on how Meg and Paul are doing this month), and she's all about Lily and Holden getting back together. Whatever's convenient right now.

Brad/Katie/Liberty/Parker/Janet/Jack

I am one of those people who is totally grossed out by "Piberty" sex. (That squish name would actually be perfect if Parker's name were "Purker"). But really, I'm not invested in most people in this story. Hugo was mildly entertaining, I suppose, though I find it hard to believe that Brad, who didn't know he even had a daughter three months ago, is now willing to do anything to keep her celibate. (I guess it could be a guilt thing, but the writers should write that in. I shouldn't have to surmise).

The poison story...meh. Next, please. I'm really just not invested. I don't think there's really anything to invest in. Still, I watch, mostly out of hope for the future, but I watch.

[petunia]

Well I loved today's show. I loved Jack finally being nice to Carly and sticking up for her for a change. Although the fact that he has to stick up for her to her own son who is fifteen is pathetic. I can't believe she allows Parker to talk to her like that. I find it difficult to watch. But I loved how Jack was with her today. How surprisingly supportive he was. They are just pure magic and I love it.

[Quent]

Remember when our show should have been called "As Jennifer's World Turns"? Then, "As Gwen's World Turns"? Well, now we have "As Liberty's World Turns". Seriously, I'm sick of seeing this chick on five days a week. Aside from the gross-out factor of a 21-year old having sex scenes with a 15 -year old, I hate seeing good actors backburnered for this lame storyline. The actress playing Liberty is not bad , but she is just on way too much.

[Soapsuds]

Yeah, Parker called her a slut. I was surprised and said nothing. But today Parker was way out of line. Carly should have smacked him in the face. i was expecting it but it didnt happen.

I totally agree. Hopefully they will backburn Liberty in the fall.

[Actor87]

As I was telling Ron.....Noelle Beck would do good on a TV show, but Lily has so many layers and so much depth to her. And the way NB portrays her, it just tells me that 1) she doesnt care or 2) she doesnt know or 3)she's not talented enough to pull it off. Martha WAS. Lily's always been one of those characters that might get on your nerves at times, and her actions are sometimes ill-founded, but you always tend to root fo her (even if you're constantly going "WTF?" in the process)........and in the end, its kinda like they strip her apart and show why she did what she did. I think alot of Martha's connection to Lily has to do with not only her talent, but her tenure with the show. This is a role that she grew up portraying. You can't say she did it without Lily becoming a part of her. And I think that's why I feel so ill towards Noelle and towards Goutman. It's almost like.....well.....they might not have meant it, but when they let MB walk out the door, it turned personal. It was almost like they were telling Martha that she wasn't good enough to be featured as much as she was the previous year.

And now, look. It's almost like they all smirk and laugh about it. Noelle is on all the time as Lily. It's almost like Goutman's using Noelle as his puppet to kinda "show" Martha Byrne. "Oh, I'll show you". Building a new set? Featuring her in a frontburner story after Martha's been lobbying for it for years. Yeah, the story's crappy and out of character; but that's another thing. I think now that NB is in the role, they think..."New actress, so we can do whatever we want with the character". It's almost like Noelle stepping into the role has given them free reign over what they can do with Lily.......and it's WRONG. Flat. Out. Wrong.

Lily would never in a million years do the stuff they've been writing. With CG/JP at the reins, it's been eating ATWT alive. Characters doing things they wouldn't normally do. Adam. Casey. Emily. Holden. Carly. Jack. Alison. The list goes on and on. However, that list never seemed to feature Lily. I think that was because Martha Byrne had some pull. She stood up for what she thought was right for Lily. She protected the part of her that was Lily and she gave them her all, despite the crap stories and spontaneous backburnerdom she seemed to be getting.....left and right. She watched out for Lily and TPTB knew not to mess with Lily. They knew that without Martha in the role, they could do whatever they wanted. And now, that's what they've done. They've turned Lily into a character of their own and they're using Noelle to do it....because they know that Martha can no longer protect herself. She can no longer protect Lily.

I'm sorry, guys. I just get really baffled when I see people talking about Noelle and how she's doing a great job. She's a great actress, but she isn't Lily. In her scenes, you can't see the character behind the eyes like you did with Martha. With Martha, she was so much a part of that character that she put her whole body, mind, soul, voice, effort into the role. But with Noelle, it's just another actress reciting lines. She might recite them well. She might show up on time. She might take her cue correctly. But I just can't understand how people would invite something so deplorable. Did Martha Byrne leave for nothing? Did she really take all the sh!t they dished her for nothing? It's almost like no one cares anymore. "Oh well, another daytime legend out the door, what a shame, tisk tisk, what is the daytime genre coming to?".....and then people move on. What has the daytime genre come to? Maybe it's going down the drain because we as fans are so immune to the crap these @ssholes dish out that we simply have stopped caring..........

I don't know, I might be in the minority by saying that I detest NB's portrayal of the role of Lily, but I said what I said. And that's my opinion.

[Juliajms]

I agree, but at the same time, there isn't a lot she can do about it either, unless she's ok with having him run away again. That's why those later teen years are hard. Children are starting to realize that at the end of the day parents only have as much authority as the teen gives them (whatever we want to believe).

She isn't going to be able to beat him into respecting her. First, it's against the law and what society deems politically correct at the moment, but more importantly, it simply won't work. The problem with telling a kid at this age that they better do as you say or they can leave is that they really might leave. I think Carly would rather put up with his tantrums than lose him, especially since she has brought some of this on herself. You can't abandon a child for one man and then sleep with his father's cousin/best friend's husband and expect him to see you as the Madonna. I think the best she can hope for is having Jack explain to him that using words like "slut" when referring to your mother isn't something a Snyder man would do.

[JackPeyton]

You are not in the minority at all.

However i could not disagree more. This is the first time i have ever cared about Lily at all, and thats all due to Noelle Beck.

[brimike]

And that's really the issue in a nutshell, Actor.

None of this is Noelle's fault. SHe's an actress, hired to do a job. If it wasn't her, it would be somebody else (And probably someone much less talented) But let's be honest here. NB is a good actress. She knows soap, she's professional, she's always prepared and she's delivering what they're writing.

But she's not Lily.

And that's where the contradiction comes into play. I am a HUUUUGE Martha Byrne fan. Like, GINORMOUS (not that that's a word, so forgive me, Sylph). And to be honest, Noelle is doing EXACTLY what she's being paid to do. She's delivering the goods, and she's believable. But she doesn't have the history with ATWT that MArtha had, that automatically makes her sympathetic.

It's kinda like if Gina Tognoni (whom I consider EXTREMELY talented) was suddenly cast as the new Sami Brady on DOOL. Would she act her @ss off? Hell yeah! Would she work hard to deliver each and every scene with genuine emotion and subtext and everything else you expect from a strong soap actor? Absolutely! But she would NEVER be Sami Brady, because those DOOL fans grew up with Ali Sweeney. And there is NO replacement for her.

I agree with all the posts that said NB is doing a great job. She absolutely is, in the literal sense. (it's not like they recast Lily with... say... Kim Onasch). But she doesn't give off that impression of "For the next hour on this TV show, I'm 'home'" that Martha did.

It's the same thing with Mantooth when he took over for Hal. He did a GREAT job, which is what he's paid to do. DOesn't change the fact that when Ben came back, there was a HUGE sigh of relief from every ATWT fan.

So in that sense, I'm not offended or bothered when people say NB did a great job on such-and-such an episode. I agree. SHe HAS done a great job. Doesn't mean I'm as emotionally invested in the character as I was when Martha played her.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

As much as I love Martha and she'll always be Lily to me, I think Noelle's rejection by a few fans is something I personally see wrong with soap audiences. They identify too much with the actor/actress, and not enough with the character. Up until the 90's or so, recasts were an accepted tradition in daytime television, and actors weren't tied down to one role, but now many of us (and I too am guilty of this) will only accept a certain actor/actress in a role and we'll refuse to give a recast a chance, simply because we want "our" actor in the role.

That's why I LOVE the UK soap system, recasts are extremely rare, and they'll kill your ass off if they want to, regardless of how much of a legacy character you are, and you know what? Most of the audience is accepting because the set-up, execution, and fall-out of the story is brilliantly handled (most of the time).