EastEnders: Discussion Thread

[Y&RWorldTurner]

You don't consider Christian "poorly drawn?" I still think he has been a bit of a caricature since his debut. They semed to initally only want him as the flashy and out and proud gay man when he first started on the show, and this the mess with Syed made him look like a perverted love sick puppy who wasn't allowed to do anything else. I'm curious to know what you like about Christian, because I struggle to find any layers to that character, same with Syed.

Edited August 28, 2010 by Y&RWorldTurner

[Y&RWorldTurner]

DS has more background information on the fire, don't read if you don't like spoilers:

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/soaps/scoop/a269109/enders-fire-barlows-twist-edale-struggle.html

[Bright Eyes]

I won't.

Edited August 29, 2010 by Amello

[Ann_SS]

Obviously, we can't all like the same characters e.g. I don't get the Kat love that people go on about. While I'll tell you how I view Christian, I'm not debating this with you because obviously we'll never agree.

I don't think that Christian is poorly drawn or a caricature. In any case, I think the word, "caricature" is used to describe any character that someone does not like. If you see a gay stereotype because he likes to have sex and party, well then that is your view. I love that Christian is out and proud, enjoys sex and partying. It isn't all that he is. He is a smart, funny, caring, loving man with a terrible temper, but quick to forgive. He loves his family and it is too bad we don't see him more with them. I adore his sibling relationships with both Jane and Ian and how much he loves the Beale kids. I think his friendship with Roxy is shallow at times, but I like how he pulls her up when she is wrong. I think that Christian has suffered from bad writing e.g. the Steven story was a debacle, but it didn't permanently damage him.

While I have not been pleased with a lot of the Christian and Syed story, overall I think that it has been great for Christian. The affair has established him as a real Albert Square resident. Just about everyone has had their forbidden affair at some point and gone on with their lives. It is a rite of passage. Loving someone blindly may not be the best idea in the world, but it does make Christian human and relatable, imo. Frankly, I think only people in the audience who are bigoted and think like Zainab could possibly view Christian's love for Syed as "perverted."

Syed is not a well drawn or developed character, but it doesn't mean that he can't become one. When I watch EE, I'm open to most characters becoming stronger with good writing. I turned around on Jack, Max, Ronnie, and Fatboy in the space of two to three weeks. No reason that can't happen with Syed. I have loved all everything about Syed since he did the therapy conversion and chose to believe that his sexuality and religious beliefs are not diametrically opposed. The recording for Shabnam that he erased was touching as well. I see a lot of good things ahead for Syed.

Edited August 29, 2010 by Ann_SS

[Y&RWorldTurner]

My problem with Christian is that I don't know who he is and where he fits in. You never see him interact with Jane much, and when he does, their bond is not easy for me to buy. For example, he went months without ever sharing a scene with her, and then all of sudden, when he was gay bashed, they had Jane screaming at Masood and everyone else about what an injustice it was and how Christian was such a lovely soul. That's nice and she's his sister, but where was she when he was suffering for months leading up that incident? Also, he and Jane had a tumultuous relationship with Christian stealing her first closeted husband. They never play up their underlying problems in their relationship anymore.

I also find it hard to buy whatever friendship he has with Roxy when they don't write for it much. For example, both Roxy and Christian spent much of 2009 and 2010 undergoing many problems, but yet, they were never there to console each other, not for months. Then suddenly, they're tacked together and Roxy thinks she knows what's best for him, or vice versa.

I don't, the scenes where Christian was intentionally teaching Amira how to make love to Syed and get him horny so he could derive some sick pleasure out of it for himself screamed pervert to me. Seriously, what sicko does that? In that case, IMO, he was a bit of a pervert who was crossing the line.

Intentionally working Amira to get close to Syed did Christian no favous, IMO. At the end, I think the only character that came out of that storyline with any integrity and respect was Amira. The show didn't make her some unbearable bitch, they played up her sympathy more than the gay couple involved. I don't know if that was intentional or not.

When I see Christian and Syed's scenes on the show now, they feel like such an afterthought, like the show can't invest any further and they don't really want to explore them. Something about their scenes feel so tacked on, I find it hard to invest.

I agree that Jack, Ronnie, Roxy, and Fatboy have had a lot work done to their development recently as characters. However, I really don't see the same being done to Christian and Syed as characters. I think the show is too afraid for some reason or another.

Edited August 29, 2010 by Y&RWorldTurner

[Ann_SS]

Like I said, we disagree on Christian because I cannot relate to anything that you have posted about him, especially when it comes to using the word, "perverted." You clearly have your own issues going on there. I think that Christian is a great character and he is one of my favorites.

Edited August 29, 2010 by Ann_SS

[Y&RWorldTurner]

I really don't know how else to describe a man who is using his so-called friend and teaching her sex techniques to get her husband interested and to get closer to him, while he gets some sick pleasure out of it.

I have no issues going on there, false assumption, if you chose to believe otherwise, that is your issue. Just stating what I think in relation to what you posted. No need for the condescending attitude, when you clearly did not read my explanation in relation to the character.

I did not find either Todd or Karl to exhibit such damaging traits on Coronation Street, nor with Craig/John Paul on Hollyoaks. John Paul certainly wasn't teaching Sarah about how she could make love to Craig, and secretly getting pleasure out of it, nor was Karl doing the same in relation to Sarah/Todd's relationship. Todd and Karl were especially better developed gay characters than what I've seen on any soap recently.

And you have every right to like him, I just needed to hear why you think he was not one of the poorly drawn characters you talked about. Because, as I said, I don't feel like I know anything about the character under the surface. Hearing from the other side of the argument might make me understand the character better.

Edited August 29, 2010 by Y&RWorldTurner

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Grant sets fire to the Vic, with Sharon trapped inside. The first fire at the Vic.

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I always wondered why the show never did much with Sharon and Grant when they were both on the show in 2004. I know 9 years had passed, but Sharon and Grant still had some unfinished business left to explore, but they just brushed over it.

[DRW50]

I guess they might have been afraid of letting fans think that might happen again. I only saw one clip they were in -- I think she told him about the abortion and he didn't get upset (which he credited to therapy). Was that it?

As for Christian, I have always felt the character has been all over the place, although that hasn't been as bad lately. The lack of character interaction is something which has hurt Eastenders a lot in recent years -- I have to admit I'm surprised they haven't had him in any scenes lately with the Beales, even as other characters are interacting more. Perhaps this is down to John Partidge's busy schedule. Anyway, I think one problem is that the people running the show had ideas in their head which did not necessarily translate onscreen. I believe that the scene of Christian coaching Amira on how to please Syed was supposed to be selfless and tragic. I don't think there was any nasty undercurrent intended. I think it just didn't work. Since Syed and Christian properly got together I think their relationship has been more believable and they are finally dealing with issues about their lives, so I hope that continues.

On the one hand I can see where they might be getting less airtime because the show doesn't know what to do with them but I also think less airtime is needed because the entire family (aside from Tamwar) was significantly damaged in the first half of this year. I just hope the show can overcome this because before that, Zainab and Masood were great characters.

I think you don't try to find a favorite, they find you.

For a long time Eastenders had very rich, complicated characters, they jumped off the screen -- they had someone for everyone. In recent years the show has been more flat, with stories that are more about what they are supposed to be than what they actually are. For instance, there were over two years where I never believed any love between Jack and Ronnie, yet they were pushed together because the show wanted us to think they were a supercouple.

I think that the telling not showing aspect is decreasing, the characters are becoming more lifelike, and I notice more and more of characters sitting and talking or characters just sitting and we can imagine what they are going through. Small little moments that, if you want, can stay with you. That's what Eastenders was, and what it hopefully may be again. That's also where you find a favorite.

My favorites on the show now are Max, Dot, Ian, Denise, Zainab, Patrick.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Yeah, that was the only real moment they had together during that time, and it was nothing really deep. There was still so much left to explore there, but Sharon and Grant rarely interacted at this time.

Wasn't there a scene soon after this where he was watching Amira and Syed have sex or listening to them in the other room and getting some type of sick satisfaction out of it? That whole thing really bothered me and made me really look down on the Christian character.

The Santer era seemed to be a big fan of the "Will they or won't they" bull. Stacey/Bradley and even Christian/Syed are also example of this. All of these characters suffered in the long run because of it. I never genuinely bought into any of these couples. It's only recently that I've come to like Ronnie and Jack, mainly because they appear to be more real and less mechanical lately.

With the show having both Kirkwood and Daran Little there, I kind of wish they would create more gay characters and relationships. Little was respinsbile for Todd/Karl at Corrie, right? They have an opportunity to show viewers that gay characters can be complicated, have chemistry, have legitimate problems, and deal with them by showing and not telling us.

Though, I suspect if they introduce more gay characters some would complain that the show is pushing some sort of gay agenda.

[DRW50]

Yeah, Little was a big factor in Todd/Karl. I wish they'd bring in a few more gay characters and I think they should try, whether they get criticism or not. They could have kept one of Christian's boyfriends around -- the first one he used to make Syed jealous (I can't believe they repeated that story twice) was pretty good.

The whole problem with will they/won't they is there was never any real attempt at actually writing for the characters, it was all just "When will they get together" and then when they were together, "When will they split up and why?" This was especially ridiculous when they dragged that pathetic Callum in to try to show us how he tempted Stacey.

I think this was intended to show his anguish. I don't think it worked that well.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

I would like it if they brought in another gay couple or a few gay characters, but don't tie them in with Christian/Syed. They can interact, but be in their own sphere.

In many ways Todd/Karl was what they wanted with Christian/Syed and just couldn't do, which is a shame, since Todd/Karl was like 7 years ago.

[DRW50]

True. In some ways this is a step forward since at least they kiss and actually became a couple, but I think Todd and Karl had better chemistry and stronger written scenes.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

More pics and details of the Vic fire. Again, if you don't want to be spoiled don't look/read.

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/soaps/s2/eastenders/news/a269244/pictures-the-vic-is-set-on-fire-in-enders.html

[DRW50]