Loving/The City Discussion Thread

[Kane]

The use of "Smooth Operator" was perfect. It reminded me of a scene from late '91, when Gwyneth overhears that Dinah Lee is seeing a married man and "I'll Be Watching You" is playing in the background. It's almost too on the nose, but it works.

I'm really hoping some more 1985 gets posted. In particular I really want to see an episode with Rebecca Staab as Cecelia; I'm curious about her take on the character.

[dc11786]

@KaneI think I've seen Rebecca Staab in a single episode as Cecilia. She was dressed in something very offbeat as if she were going off to a B-52s concert. I do think each actress played a very different version of the character from what I've seen. I do like Colleen Dion the most as I think her version of Cece was a predecessor for what was later done with Dinahlee. 

Collins, like Tudor Newman, just seemed to be able to evolve the character with such ease despite the rockiness of the transition between the revolving door of writers, producers, and recasts in their characters orbits. I wish they had done more with them when Curtis and Dinahlee were married and Chris Marcantel had returned to the part. I recall at one point (March 1994) Dinahlee, Curtis, Gwyn, and Clay were all living together. I liked how Gwyn and Dinahlee were able to push their differences aside for Curtis, but I wish that had been tested more.  

I vaguely recall Gwyn overhearing the conversation you were speaking of. The show managed to effectively use music throughout it's run. I seem to recall Dinahlee having a very sorrowful, heartfelt conversation with Louie Slavinski in November 1992 about how Louie was like the father she never had while Bonnie Raitt's "I Can't Make You Love Me" played in the background. 

[slick jones]

6/17/1985

 

[dc11786]

Thanks for alerting us to this. 

I'm glad more and more of this period is coming out. I think the baby lie stuff is really enjoyable. Jack going on and on about where the child would be in the future. I wish the show had survived long enough to bring back Johnny. I am still surprised that Johnny was kept around even after Jack and Ava divorced. I don't actually don't remember at what point Johnny goes back to Tug and Sheri, but I imagine it's late 1985 or early 1986. 

I only caught the first few minutes, but I'll comment later on the rest. 

[Kane]

Johnny gets returned to Sherrie and Tug at the beginning of July/86, bringing about a swift end to Ava and Curtis' very short marriage.

If Loving had lasted longer, I would have liked to see the show bring Jack back from the dead and then bring back a teenage Johnny, who would basically be a male version of early Ava - devious, ruthless, and ambitious. The press around Jack's return from the dead would lead to Johnny finding out that he was once thought to be Jack and Ava's son and then he'd come to town with a chip on his shoulder over his parents trading him in exchange for the funds to pay for an operation for his sister as well as them taking him back and robbing him of the chance to be an Alden heir. His goal would be to regain his "rightful" place as a member of the Alden family.

Ava would be forced to contend with the sins of her past, Jack would try to have some kind of relationship with him despite his resentment towards JJ, since he would see JJ as having the life he was supposed to have (or, alternately, Jack would start to bond with him as a result of being rejected by JJ, who is so bonded with Buck that he now sees him as his father), and Stacey and Ava's feud could be reignited.

[dc11786]

Thanks. I had forgotten how long that story had played out.

I've toyed with "Loving" fanfiction over the years. Typically, I'd include Johnny because I felt that, like you, he was the natural pot stirrer, a male Ava who would strive for the better life. In one version, I had considered Johnny locating an amnesiac Jack Forbes and emotionally blackmailing Ava into playing in his scheme to convince Jack that Johnny was his son. Other versions just typically had him scheming as Ava's natural successor clashing with Ava's own son, Sandy. I usually liked to have his sister Ava, who I'd always call Emily so that there weren't two Avas on the canvas, as his moral compass. My version of Johnny typically would try to seduce some daughter of Zack and Lorna's. 

I like your thoughts @Kaneon keeping the Buck / J.J. relationship. I enjoyed Buck and J.J. and Buck and Stacey, but I really wanted them to give a real go to Stacey and Curtis. To end Buck and Stacey, I had considered having Buck work on renovating the Rodeo Bar, which would have led to a cash strapped Buck hiring a shady contractor who was cutting corners. The shoddy contractor would have caused some sort of accident at the Rodeo Bar that would have led to J.J. being blinded. J.J. wouldn't regain his sight, but rather would learn to live life as someone who could no longer see going through the cycle of emotions. Buck's guilt and Stacey's inability to move past it would have broken them up. At the same time, Stacey's involvement in J.J.'s life would have left Heather feeling alienated as Stacey was spending a significant amount of time helping J.J. adjust. This would have led to Heather spending more and more time with grandma Gwyn and Heather wanting to move in with her grandmother. There wouldn't be a custody battle, but there would be conflict as Gwyn loves Heather and wants her a part of her life, but knows that this would be killing Stacey on the inside. Curtis and Stacey would have grown closer as Curtis paid to have Stacey's house equipped to make it easier for J.J. to navigate in his home environment. Of course, Curtis would lash out at Gwyn, who wasn't malicious in the situation regarding Heather, but it would lead to Curtis and Gwyn to come to terms with their own complicated dynamic as a mother and son. Of course, after Stacey and Curtis had married, Jack would return and a whole new set of complications would arise. 

[Count Henri]

First scene of Marianne Tatum as Gwyneth Alden in november 1989.

Greetings from Italy

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[dc11786]

Rebecca Staab as Cece. 

This is a little less memorable than the others for me. The break up of Steve and Trisha doesn't do much for me. I do like some of the places they are trying to go, but its too much high drama. I like the conceit that Steve is choosing his father over Trisha as I cannot think of another time a father-son dynamic has played out like that. Usually, it's the meddling mother with her Oedipus-esque relationship with her son. 

I don't think I knew that Cabot and Jack had worked at the Alden Foundation together. I like that idea. Ava manipulating both Tony (unsuccessfully) and Cabot (more successfully) was probably the highlight. I liked Tony talking about the orphanage. I wonder if he and Rita Mae broke up onscreen or if it was something that happened after Pamela Blair's contract was up. 

The groundwork for the Zona story is being laid with Linc remaining mysterious about the women in his past and being raised around three brothers. I find Linc and the Beechams provided a nice conflict for the Aldens. 

[victoria foxton]

 

 

[AMCOLTLLover]

I just realized now that Cooper is played by that Tony Dinozzo guy from NCIS back in the day. Wow. He really had a glow up.

 

[Contessa Donatella]

Right, Michael Weatherly, LOVING, THE CITY, NCIS and then BULL. I'm missing something. That show Alba did! It had the character named "SIN" dy in it. Weatherly played the good guy in the wheelchair. Anyone remember what show I'm talking about?

DARK ANGEL

Edited October 21, 2022 by Tonksadora
another show

[SteelCity]

And he still has an annoying, immature lack of self awareness. I'm surprised by Rebecca Gayheart.

[Contessa Donatella]

I hope this hasn't already been posted. If I'm duplicating, I'm sorry.

There's this guy on twitter, who also has a soap channel on YT, who is soon going to start showing THE CITY from beginning to end. I'm going to watch it again! In case anyone here wants to check it out, here's his deets:

Rad Rockefeller (he/him)

@Rad_Rockefeller

Follows you

 

Documenting Soap Operas, one juicy story at a time! Check out my YouTube channel below for all my Soap Opera Documentaries, Catfights, & Top 10 countdowns!

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[victoria foxton]

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Edited November 6, 2022 by victoria foxton

[Forever8]

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