Ryan's Hope Discussion Thread

[applcin]

I didn't care for Frank and Jill together either. When I first saw the show as a kid, Frank was with Rae and I never quite got past seeing DHK's Frank as Rae's boy-toy. When I got to see the earlier years on SoapNet, I really liked how Seneca and Jill started out, except her constant pining for Frank was annoying. As a kid, the main thing I remembered about Jill was that she could be unconventional and bohemian in style while at the same time a professional woman. She was really a mass of contradictions that, in the hands of a less capable or appealing actress, might have made me dislike Jill. She would profess eternal devotion to Frank and sometimes allow herself to be the mistress; other times she would compartmentalize him so she could have another lover. I wish the thing with Seneca had played out differently so that his controlling tendencies didn't become as out of control as they did. They gave Jill these 2 serious relationships besides Frank in the first 6 years--Seneca and Ken, yet conveniently having Jill qualify both from the beginning. It was always "yes, I'll be with you but I still love Frank and these are the terms" (literally with Seneca as she had him sign a marriage contract). Ken was conveniently a dead man walking so she had a built-in out from the beginning. And yet, she started the affair with him when she finally had a free and clear Frank, which apparently freaked her out. I think it would have been interesting to see Ken stick around a little longer, or go into remission and have him put up a fight for Jill. Instead, Jill fighting a murder charge eventually became the road back to Frank.

[ChitHappens]

Jill was just an amazing character to me, and you are right, a lesser actress would not have been able to pull off the stunts and behavior she did. I was so happy things ended with Ken because I could not take him wailing "Jillian" to music! Awful!

The way she and Seneca first came together made me so happy, but then she treated him as a nuisance. That pissed me off, but I was of the mind that Jillian Coolridge could do no wrong, so I was over it. She and Seneca are two characters that I defended no matter what!

The late Nancy Addison Altman will always be one of the most strikingly beautiful women on Daytime ever!

[John]

Here is the Youtube Channel

https://www.youtube.com/user/Freeflyur

[DRW50]

I haven't watched a lot of the last two Franks, but I did think Nancy and DHK had great chemistry together. I could see their love, even if I still had issues with them as a couple. The first two Franks, especially the first, wooden top one, were another story. The initial Frank/Jill story (they'd committed adultery for many years and this was supposed to be beautiful and wonderful) always left a bad taste in my mouth and made me a Delia stan for life.

[ChitHappens]

The first Frank was atrocious and a Daytime Don't. He would read cue cards for a good 15 seconds before he spit out a line. I hear that was Christian Slater's father?

[DRW50]

Yes. Funnily enough, Christian had a recurring role on the show a decade later.

The guy who played him (Michael Hawkins) had a weird history with daytime. He never really had a popular role and I think he changed his name two or three times. He claimed he was under-par at RH because he was on Broadway at the same time, but I don't know.

[KMan101]

Thanks John for posting the link! Sorry to those I hadn't sent a PM, just checked back in here ...

The first Frank was so bad. I always preferred Daniel Hugh Kelly's Frank. I'm not sure what I feel of the last Frank. I can't remember his name this second and don't really feel like looking it up, lol.

How many Frank's? 4? 3?

I always felt RH downgraded most of the time when they recast. Sometimes they hit a bright spot (Randall Edwards, Daniel Hugh Kelly, Karen Morris Gowdy) but man, I was often never impressed. Even the Patrick recasts. The second one grew on me the more I rewatched but I always preferred Malcom Groome.

And Nancy Addison Altman is just so terrific.

The cast had some really great actors. Not that I didn't already know that but watching the episodes again after such a long lapse from watching the reruns on SoapNet makes me remember why I really enjoy RH. I'm so glad I saw the first several years and now I can see the last several years.

[DRW50]

5 Franks.

I'm glad you didn't say anything bad about Pat #2 because I would have gone off a little bit if you had.

RH had a ton of bad recasts but the writing was the general failure in many of the cases. Aside from Jack, the show would not let characters grow and change, ever, unless change = being devolved for a plot purpose.

Edited December 3, 2013 by DRW50

[safe]

Frank/Jill/ Seneca

During the early years of the show producer Robert Costello said that the show was about the Ryan family -- so any romantic relationships had to have a connection to the Ryans'. Maybe they could have made it a quadrangle with Mary Ryan/ Jack/ Jill/ Seneca instead of the Frank Ryan/Jill/Seneca triangle.

I was always surprised when I watched the beginning again that Jill was a lonely woman while Mary, Nell, and Faith had plenty of male interest in them. (Mary had Jack, Bob, even a brief interest by Roger, Sam Crowell. Nell had Seneca, Ed, Roger. Faith had Bucky, Pat, Kenneth, and even when Faith was held in the basement, others had dialog about an unseen hospital delivery guy who had a crush on her.)

Jill & Frank

Nancy said that the writers and the audience wouldn’t let them be apart. She sounded fine about this in 1983-- even saying that she felt they owed the audience a big wedding (which the viewers never got, just a small hospital wedding which wasn't legal and an off-screen legal wedding where it was just the two of them). By the final time they reunited Jill and Frank -- Nancy said she was then backburned for over the last year of her run. This was why she decided to leave the show and give Hollywood a shot.

Does anyone know how Nancy felt about Ken George Jones? During the 1976/1977 pregnancy story and keeping the baby's true paternity secret ( who Jill mistakenly believed was the father of her baby)-- this story bothered Nancy so much that she went to the writers to tell them that Jill wouldn't be deceiving Frank or Seneca. I always thought Nancy believed Jill was woman of integrity -- so I wondered how she felt about deceiving Frank during the KGJ affair.

As bad as Michael Hawkins was as Frank, he did have his fans, though. There were letters printed in magazines where people wrote in upset that he was replaced.

Andrew Robinson said one the reasons he finally agreed to take the role of Frank was that, after playing mainly “bad guys” for his career, he wanted to play a “good guy” for a change and he said the writers told him that the audience rooted for Frank.

Edited December 3, 2013 by safe

[ChitHappens]

Interesting stuff. Jill thought it was Seneca who fathered her child. Seneca knew the truth and said nothing.

[applcin]

I think Frank as starting out with Michael Hawkins was supposed to be, at least to my perception, a JFK type. The good-looking up and coming politician who basically wanted to do good works for people and could charm them but who also had some personal flaws and a rather questionable set of moral guidelines (I guess we were supposed to feel he was the longsuffering one because he married a needy child-woman). Had the man actually been capable of good acting, who knows how some of the scenes might have played out. I guess I could understand some fans being upset he was replaced. He was the original, he was with the show a couple of years in a very prominent role...and he was the centerpiece of a number of the characters' stories, even when all we saw of him were repeated flashbacks of him falling down the stairs while, in real time, he was in a coma and everybody was acting around him. It seemed, from what Bernie Barrow said, that MH was basically a good guy who was having a hard time getting it together at that point.

Andrew Robinson, a much more capable actor (if not as good looking as MH), I thought was great as Mary's brother. I always preferred him in scenes with Mary because they seemed really like brother and sister (and no great surprise that they've been good friends ever since). In the Ryan family, I thought his Frank fit right in. But in terms of Frank's other relationships and what I thought the above-mentioned "type" was supposed to be like, it felt like a miscast. He seemed more of a character actor than a leading man. At least when DHK came along, they seemed to get the best of what the previous 2 brought to the table--the good looks and the acting chops combined. Even if I didn't particularly like Frank, I do think DHK was the best characterization.

I kind of liked what Ken represented in the sense that there were some character traits he had in common with Jill. He wasn't trying to control her or get her to commit to anything, despite coming on to her rather strongly and persistently. Looking at it years later, there were definitely cheesy aspects to the storyline but maybe it played better in 1980? Or were people so intent on keeping Jill with Frank that KGJ couldn't die soon enough?

Edited December 4, 2013 by applcin

[allmc2008]

Can you send me the link??

[Soaplovers]

The writer's inability to let the characters evolve and be stuck in a hamster wheel was the first undoing of the show. When Frank was gone from the fall of 1981 till early 1983, did Jill do anything or was she just the friendly go-to?

[John]

Enjoy:

https://www.youtube.com/user/Freeflyur

[safe]

The Frank (1 & 2) and Mary (1) relationship was not what it used to be by the time DHK Frank and Mary 2 & 3 & 4 were around. At that point they started building up the Frank and Jack relationship, so when Frank go over the Fenelli apartment, since Mary was rarely ever home, they stated having Frank talk over his problems with Jack more than Mary.

Edited December 4, 2013 by safe