Cat

Oh, I love Lisa! Despite having had arguably the most plastic surgery outside of Mama Elsa, this woman is genuinely wonderful. Who else would take in Joanna's work-shy scrounger of a sister? A girl's girl like Lisa, that's who. And I love her and the adoring housekeeper Daisy who obviously thinks Lisa is a telenovela character come to life. The one thing that REALLY won me over about Lisa is how upfront she was about Lea. She admires Lea, she wants to learn from her, she is inspired by her. Even though Lisa is no fool and must know that Lea openly disdains her, she is honest in saying what so many women wouldn't say when it comes to frenemies. As for Lea -- I like her at home, with her husband, her child, and her puppy (those tears were real, y'all). I like that she spreads a little drama and bitchiness because it creates story but at the same time -- bringing Joe Francis to the party when she prob knew his connection to the Krapkas was a malicious step too far. IRL I wouldn't trust her further than I could throw her. She is a total fake in social situations, but a fake I can live with on this show. I admire your spirited defense of Adrienne. Listen, I am a superfan of Lisa but I am not blind to her flaws -- I don't think ANY of these RHs are perfect. I donlt watch for that. I watch for entertainment, and the producers manipulate for entertainment. If Adrienne wasn't invited to Lisa's party, it is because whoever is head-writing RHoBH decreed it so. Lisa prob went along with it because she was hurt by Adrienne's slanderous claims. These two women were friends and neighbors at one time -- from S1 to S2, Adrienne turned on Lisa little by little and went out of her way to make her look bad. I'm sorry but she did. As for The Palms fiasco, personally I think Lisa should have done BOTH The Palms and Mohammed's Planet Hollywood bash for Pandora as they were both gifts from friends. However, I do not think Lisa could and should have dumped Mohammed in favor of Adrienne's offer. It is clear that Mohammed is a close family friend. As for sitting down with Adrienne and clearing the air, yes, I think Lisa would have done this. But after the hatred and jealousy that Adrienne exhibited to Lisa at Reunion, the set-up she orchestrated -- sometimes when you see toxic, you want to run away from it, like "I don't need that in my life." I felt like Adrienne was showing her true colors for the first time at Reunion. SUCH jealousy! I wouldn't blame Lisa if she felt that way, too, and wanted nothing more to do with her. As for Kyle and Taylor, I think Lisa should have shown those two bitches the finger, too. They have set her up as the enemy more than once when it suited their Poor Me agenda. Hurrah! A Camille fan. We can argue forever about whether Camille was relevant in S2 because she "only had one good scene." The fact is, she is relevant to me because I like her a lot. End of.

Finally caught up with my one true wuv RHoBH lol. I am so happy it is back and am perfectly fine with it being a foundation episode for S3. I can busy myself with drinking in the houses, the clothes, the glamour and the glitz leap off the screen and look just that much sparklier than the other RH franchises. Liking Yolanda already, with that mix of impossibly stunning glamazon and practical, direct Dutchwoman. Of course she's a friend of Lisa's. Lisa is super fabulous as always. This woman can do no wrong (except when she pairs a pink shirt with a black skirt. NEVER pastels + black, Lisa!), and I love her friendship with Brandi. Kyle really thinks she is the funniest person in Los Angeles. Portia inviting the ladies to her birfday pahty was cute, though. "Hello dahling!" Kim. Eh. Kathy Hilton OTOH needs to be on the show. You know, much as I dislike that wannabe TayShanna, I see why this grifter need to be on the show. Because she is a fake and a grifter and always on the point of being exposed as such. Speaking of fake, I can't with Adrienne. What an awful, cold, malicious woman. And telling Taylor that Lisa needs to get past her pettiness? How petty was it accusing her of selling stories to Radar or TMZ or wherever with no proof? Can't wait for Camille later this season!

Did you catch last season's Reunion episodes? Adrienne, Kyle and Taylor threw Lisa under the bus and attempted to smear her reputation on TV (they failed though). The look of hurt in her eyes when she confronted Kyle about what they did, the look of hurt she had throughout all three Reunion episodes was enough for me (if I wasn't before) to be Team Lisa. When Brandi came into Reunion, she was the only one to support Lisa after all her supposed BFFs had knifed her in the back. That, and the Hawaii trip, solidified the Brandi-Lisa friendship, I think. You could tell in Hawaii that they both "got" each other and have a similar sense of humor. I like their friendship! 1000% AGREE about Camille. She made Season 1, and I loved her last season as well, whether a PR firm is involved in her redemption or not. Camille is awesome and I wish she was still a regular. When she called out TayShanna about Russell, it was a true thing of beauty -- exposing Taylor's hypocrisy and Russell's abuse in one fell swoop. This around the time when Taylor's "best friend" Kyle was still doing VTs saying she didn't know if Russell actually beat up his wife. I haven't seen RHoBH yet. I am dying to, though.

Your post came at just the right time -- because I was struggling through episodes 3 and 4 and seriously considering whether to drop this franchise completely. Lisa's lingerie party WAS insane, though I am still utterly confused as to what exactly transpired and why things got out of hand. Was Joanna mad because Joe Francis may have been telling the truth? Was she mad because Marta slept with Joe while he was with her? Why did she stick her nose into a private conversation between Karent and Adriana? It was a hot-ass mess and, for once, I don't believe it was a scripted catfight at all. There have been some unexpected moments, namely the Romain-Joanna dinner after she found those texts/e-mails. I was ready for her to kick his ass out but he was clear and forthcoming in his defense of himself and I was almost relieved they didn't break-up -- very unusual for me as cheating is a deal-breaker for me! That entire relationship is imploding before our very eyes, though. IA that the rolling cast of supporting players give this show an added extra that the other franchises do not have. But Mama Elsa and Daisy the housekeeper apart, sometimes the amount of "extra" characters makes the show lack focus at times. Despite all the fights and yapping, nothing ever really progresses. Perhaps that comes later. I do think it is cool the way the have kept Alexa back in the thick of things even though she is not a regular HW this season.

I loved "Diamond's aren't a girl's best friend, FREEDOM is"! RHoNY had some great ones. I will always LOL when I think of Jill's "I run with a faaaaaaaaahbulous circle of people." LuAnn's "I never feel guilty about being privileged" is classic. As is Alex's "To a certain group of people in New York, status is everything." I **HATE** Sonja's "A little Sonja will spice up any party." Talk about blah. But these new RHoBH ones are the worst. Lisa's "Life in Beverly Hills is a game and I make the rules" was good enough to warrant a second season in the credits.

NeNe: "I have arriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiived. And the spotlight's on me, honey." So I am starting to watch Season 2 of Real Housewives of Miami after the high praise seen on these threads. I never saw Season 1 but I don't think that matters. After one and a half episodes: - It doesn't feel like a true RH show like NY, NJ or OC do... but close enough. It feels like RHoV, which makes sense -- like Vancouver, Miami is almost a foreign city, gateway to LatAm. I'm not hispanic but I grew up among a lot of hispanics/Latin Americans and so a lot of the attitudes/cultural references feel like "home" to me. Mama Elsa in particular reminds me of my best friend's mom. - The bling truly is BLING, all with a heavy coating of tacky. - I wish the show would let some of the parents speak Spanish if they want to when it is clear that they would rarely have a breakfast conversation with their daughter and her boyfriend en inglés. I like hearing Spanish and I don't mind reading a few subtitles. - Joanna Krapka is beautiful but also looks like a coke addict. - The men are pretty skeevy. Karent's Roman is getting all this ass, really? How? He's just a soap actor! Luis Miguel he ain't. - Is it Karent or Karen T? - Was Alexia previously part of the show? I wondered if she begged out of filming when her son got into his accident. I like what little I've seen of her. - Karent is the Tamra Barney of the show -- the [!@#$%^&*]-stirrer with the most insincere smile on earth. - Adriana I'm not really feeling. Lea is trying to hard to be Jill Zarin. - Lisa, Karent, Joanna and Ana are driving all and any story right now. - Just make Mama Elsa a full HW -- she is awesome and the real star.

And that, right there, is why I can never warm to Jill. Of COURSE she wants somebody like Heather gone. Can't have arguably the brightest, sanest and most relatable HW stealing Toxic Jill's thunder! She knows Heather would never put up with her BS. I loved Danielle and her girls of RHoNJ. I would definitely want her back.

If you're offering...

Sigh. I wish I could watch Toxic Jill on WWHL.

I am wondering if the Jill Zarin interview on WWHL might be a precursor to that. It won't be Alex, I think Andy C lost his rag with Simon long ago.

The RHoNY reunion was a welcome RELIEF after the NJ Reunion. Swear to God, I need a break from the NJ HW and they need a good long BREAK from TV, InTouch, USWeekly, Andersen, Wendy and anything approaching reality TV fame. They have destroyed their respective families and bankrupted themselves for the sake of appearing on a cable reality show. Re: NY, I love all 6 ladies to varying degrees. Even though Sonja was in the wrong re: what Heather was trying to do for her toaster oven (!), I will always love Sonja for letting it all hang out, whether it is defending her ex or talking about the death of her dog. Andy Cohen's reaction to Ramona and her shouting at him about her drinking was... interesting. In a lot of ways, this season of RHoNY feels like it ended too soon.

I think Andy has a small crush on Joey Gorga now. Elephant g-string As for all the other stuff... sigh. Caroline's final thoughts really surprised me. Is she extending the hand of friendship to Tre? Because she can't roll anything else. You know, even with all those cosmetic changes and wonky new nose and stroke-addled new lips, Kathy still has dissatisfaction permanently etched on her face.

^^ And it's not like our memories are faulty -- YouTube, Hulu etc all confirm what we have known for a long time! I feel moved by all your contributions to my post about Holly and Roger and GL. These were all very personal, sober and meaningful reflections on H & R that seem to mirror the depth and intensity of what I have seen in clips. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for giving me your assessment. I am so excited to have discovered an aspect of GL I previously knew little about. I am almost as breathless watching some of these episodes as perhaps some of you were when you first saw them screened. Having your input has allowed me to appreciate the show as a whole. I felt this way when I discovered AW via Ryan & Anne Heche's Vicky, and it opened up an entire world. The same is now true of GL -- like I discovered a whole new country which is so rich and lush. But as always with these things, it is bittersweet to see all this promise and mastery squandered because of -- let's face it -- greed, incompetence and (possibly) internal politics. It is crazy to me that true writers and lovers of the genre like Nancy Curlee, Sheri Anderson, Claire Labine (Love of Life and GH, I'm thinking) and the man who wrote EON almost all through its run are nowhere to be found in Daytime. Like they were so good at their job in certain instances that some kind of latent jealousy meant they were tossed aside for mediocrity. Because TIIC felt we, the viewers, didn't deserve any better. Re: Holly's return in 1990 -- I can see the difference between her in the 70s and 1980 and the later Holly, and I think it is organic. Holly took Chrissie to Switzerland, and she became more sophisticated and mature in some ways. She'd seen a little more of the world. She'd grown, evolved, she wasn't stuck in a 1980s mindset. I think I like her better as this Holly because of all the new edges, her wit, her newfound strength coupled with lingering vulnerabilites. She is so human. It is these kind of women on Daytime that were role models (for lack of a better word) for me. I wanted to be them when I grew up, minus the bouts of alcoholism or other terrible events that befell them. Khan/CarlD, I made an offhand reference to Reva in the 1980s which came out too b&w. I have been enjoying Big Reva in the full episodes of GL I have chanced upon, but what I like is that she is one of many strong characters woven into the fabric of the show. In later years I found that GL became a bit The Reva Show. KZ has not always been my cup of tea (she ate up SB and hastened its cancellation IMO) but there is no denying her commitment to her roles. Well, onward and upward in my belated viewing of classic GL!

OK, so I have a question. On other threads, there has been much debate about Daytime's penchant for rapists, and redeeming rapists, and pairing them up with their victim. Like rape is somehow romantic. I think the overwelming consensus is that this is one of those awful, misogynistic themes that run through soaps which should be retired. So how do you feel about it in context to Roger & Holly on GL? I watched a TV special called Roger Thorpe - The Scandal Years on YouTube. It looked like it was put together in the early 90s, and Michael Zaslow and Maureen Garrett presented it. The special had tons of clips detaling the characters and their history on the show (as an aside, the intense friendship between MZ and MG is plain to see -- they cuddle each other as they watch the clips. It is very moving to watch). They show the affair, the marriage, the rape (which is certainly not romanticized in any way), the trial, and Holly's shooting of Roger, which was somehow rather empowering as a viewer. Then the Santo Domingo scenes (sigh, a proper international shoot!) and later, Roger's return and how Holly was slowly being drawn to him again... I can't deny the intense chemistry between the two actors, and I buy that these two have something dark and troubled in them that binds them together again and again. They are obsessed with each other. At this point, I buy everything they are selling me. The rape is there and a huge factor in their relationship -- but it doesn't define the relationship completely. In some ways this is complex and refreshing. In other ways, it is worrying that I want to watch these two so much after what he did. What do you guys think? Is this yet another case of two actors who have chemistry overwelming the natural evolution of a SL? Or an organic, fascinating exploration of two people's very dark relationship? This brings to mind a scene from Santo Domingo... Holly and Roger are stuck in that grotto. Holly, sick with fear and anger, screams and rushes for him like she's about to strangle him. Roger does the same. Then they stop and just kind of look at each other. It is hard to describe the scene because there is so much going on in terms of emotions -- they seem to be mirrors of each other in a lot of ways. Other thoughts: Maureen Garrett's Holly is no weeping wallflower. I love how real and complicated she is, how multifaceted and witty and sad she can be. Her mellifluous, grave voice is so wonderful, I could listen to her speak all day -- such a contrast with the brittle, nasally voices of actresses today. They do not write characters like that anymore, but how I wish they did. So compelling and yet so recognizeably human. Chris Bernau -- what an amazing Alan! I only ever saw Ron Raines but CB blows him off the map. I know Roger and Alan were big rivals but at one point Roger confides in him about kidnapping Christina and leaving town, and it adds a whole different layer to this rivalry/frenemyship. Michael Zaslow is... no words. He brings energy and oxygen to every scene. Force of nature. Roger must have been as popular a character as Reva, perhaps even moreso (I've been watching 1983 GL and Reva is kind of hokey, a loud soap character like any other). It must have been a huge blow to the show when he was fired. Ross Marler -- hero or villain? Discuss.

That's how I felt about watching Santa Barbara, GH, Days back in the day. I'm sorry I missed GL the first time around and, while it's not the same, thank goodness for YouTube. I am catching up slowly but will undoubtedly be back in this thread to read posts and post random questions, lol.

Well, I saw the Maureen Garrett news and just because I am a soap fan, I clicked on the link which led to more links and some YouTube video regarding Holly and Roger's backstory. Oh. MY. GOD. I never knew. I never understood. I heard about GL -- the old GL, the great GL -- but my exposure to it was KZ and LW chewing anything in sight and some guy called Jeffrey stinking up the place. Oh, and Jammy. And then GL went outdoors and I just couldn't watch face something so cheap-looking. The Holly-Roger clips OTOH? Were amazing. I'm not just talking about marital rape which was tough and honest and MG did that story so much credit and honesty. I am talking about their stories involving Blake and Ed Bauer and these two incredibly complex, multifaceted characters. I just saw a clip where a drunken Holly tells Blake she never loved her. Astounded at how good the acting is, how drawn I am into the story. MG is just amazing. MZ is a force of nature. I am rediscovering something special about GL for the first time (I am also catching up on some 1983 clips of the show, it's a lot of fun). I am only sad to have discovered the show after its demise and not during its glory, as I did with AW.

YES! This whole scene makes me LMAO. That and Sonja kicking off her clothes and Heather saying "I saw so much of Sonja's of boobs and vajazzle in St Barts, I wondered if I should feed and water them." I love Sonja. Uncanny!

Oooooooooooo. I love me some Kennedy/Radziwill drama. Real Housewives of Cape Cod... starring Lee Radziwill, Taylor Swift, Carole R and Caroline Kennedy. Make it happen, Andy (And yes, I know it never could). It's funny because Carole's attitude -- put on a sweet face, bitch about the other ladies behind their back -- brings Jackie O to mind (yes, I know she's an untouchable icon, but she disparaged Martin Luther King privately while still accepting to appear front row at his funeral). Back to RHoNY -- Cheap once posted a jpeg of Sonja blow-drying her body while Ramona stood there like it was her own personal wind machine. It was when they were in St Barts. I thought of that today and literally LOL. Scene of the season IMO.

I agree. I was disappointed by Carole because this seemed to be really her -- or a side to her that had been kept hidden because, you know, her MIL is Lee effing Radziwell and Andy was attracted to the cachet. It was kind of an eye-opener, actually. Heather was really the only one who came across exactly the same as she does on the show.

RHoNY reunion was great because one minute I was pulling for one lady, the next for another. Sonja proved why she needs to be back next season, as did Heather and Luann. Luann was smart to bring her beef with Carole down to the simplest, most relatable thing, which was that she was hurt that Carole would imply that the dresses were good enough for Michelle Obama but not good enough for her. It really made a mockery of Carole's non-elitist stand earlier when she talked about not using her princess title. And I say this is a big Carole fan but she did not come off well in that reunion as she does on the show. I know everybody hates Aviva but I still hope she sticks around. I thought her recounting of how she lost her leg was moving and not gonna lie, I teared up when she talked about screaming in pain as the machine crunched her leg. Ramona and Sonja had the grace to look affected during that segment, too. I do think Sonja and Ramona should have accepted Aviva's apology. I buy that she rewatched the show and saw how crazy and unreasonable she was being. I also buy that she saw public opinion shifting away from her and she decided to cut her losses. I actually liked the Aviva-Ramona friendship earlier in the season. Heather is fantastic. Ramona -- she's a slippery one. My verdict's still out on Crazy Pinot who throughs even her BFF Sonja under the bus.

Wait -- Jill Zarin was on NYC Reunion last night?! This I need to see! I haven't caught NYC Reunion yet but I am looking forward to it. It says something about how toxic RHoNJ has become when I consider two drunks vs. a one-legged tight-ass welcome entertainment. The saddest thing about RHoNJ is how ALL these women have become dead-eyed hysterics throwing their own aunts, uncles, sisters, brothers and children under the bus for the sake of fame and this show. Melissa seems the strongest and savviest and yet at the same time this chick buys as fiercely into the fantasy of the fabulous life as Teresa. "Joe and I could buy that house 5 times over" -- bitch please. The show has ruined these women's lives. It has bankrupted them financially, emotionally and morally. None of them can do anything but lie.

Damn -- Kim Richards has no excuse with that awful clown make-up. Her eyebrows look like they have been colored in with Crayola. Kyle always has fabulous, dewy make-up. She needs to lend out her make-up artist. Jacqueline Laurita's awful nose job threw her face completely out of whack.

While I *love* the new women -- especially Heather who is just so relatable and deadpan, the voice of the audience in a way -- I think the dynamic which works is the "new three" rubbing up against the "old three." I can't tell you what a pleasure it has been to see Ramona called out on her BS. I liked Ramona when she stood up for Bethenny against Jill and her crazy attack dog Kelly, but other than that Crazy-Eyes Pinot is narcissistic to the point of psychosis, and the fact that Heather and Aviva call her out on her behavior and trashiness is pure bliss for me (that, and her horrendous 90s dress sense). And the fact that LuAnn is now dealing with a woman who has a higher aristocratic title than she is pretty good, too. Finally, the Countess gets taken down a peg or two. Honestly, I thought Pirategate and helping Sona out made LuAnn viable again. On their own, Heather, Aviva and Carole might not generate the story and interest needed to keep RHoNY going (even though I think it is pretty clear that outside of the show, H, A and C would have zero interest in socializing with R, S and L). My gut tells me LuAnn and possibly Sonja will be gone next season. Carole may ask to be let out of her contract as she works on developing her show based on her book. I can't wait for Reunion to see them hash it all out. I want Sonja to see how Pinot threw her under the bus Monday night.

Also, Kathy's nose job looks cheap, her mouth looks weird, and her weave looks AWFUL. Teresa had the best dress there, green is a good color on her (LOL), it was also very cleopatra-esque, but that vaseline-smeared glitter all over her chest and face? Gross. I wanted to grab a kleenex and blot it.

Also did you notice that Teresa called out into the wings "Ma! Ma! Did you hear that?!" If Kathy was calling Teresa's parents effing liars with her aunt right there, that is some fucked up [!@#$%^&*]. I wish Andy would bring Teresa's mom and dad and Kathy's mom to the sofa, gently talk to them without those hosebeast screaming at each other and see what they have to say because I would imagine that, unlike the nutcases on RHoNJ, Tre's parents are not famewhores and actually care about what happens to their family. I would also want to see that fake ho Melissa's face drop when her parents-in-law come in because you know they would tell Andy the truth about how she threw any Gorga family harmony under the bus in pursuit of a gig on RHoNJ and a "singing" career. I had so much other stuff to say, but then I read D-Listed and it kind of put this toxic show into context: http://dlisted.com/2012/10/01/speaking-scaring-wild-beasts Speaking Of Scaring Wild Beasts..... From Nishanto the bear scarer to Rosie the gorilla scarer.... On last night's reunion of The Real Housewives of New Jersey, the rabid animals from the New Jersey exhibit in the Bravo zoo were all stuffed into the old pageants gowns of Miss Venezuelas past and were forced to go after each other while a confused, scared, wonk-eyed gay squirrel looked on. And DAMN did they go after each other. In the clip above, new-faced Kathy goes after no forehead-having Theresa by calling her father a coward. Theresa returned the slap by bringing up Kathy's late father and that [!@#$%^&*] awoke the butch beauty beast! Former HSOTD and Kathy's sister Rosie nearly made Theresa's gorillas in the mist hairline jump back a few inches when she started screaming backstage. Rosie threatened to rip Theresa's head off and serve it to Kate Capshaw. Cousin Rosie went OFF like somebody just took the last Home Depot lumber cart that she had her eye on. We won't really know if Cousin Rosie ate Theresa's head off until part two airs next week, but this is all I needed to see.