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Can't argue with that. Why would Ashley and Naomi leave Uptown to go to that godforsaken coffee spot that looks like it's in the corner of an almost-abandoned mall? -- Listening to Tomas and Eva talk about the book series they're reading was painful. -- Madison and Chelsea kissing at the hospital is really inappropriate. Do these writers think that's cute? It's not. -- Also, I wish we got to see the conversations that moved Madison and Chelsea to make up. Instead, it was skip the show and move on to the tell. -- Kind of weird that Bill and Tomas sat at that country club table for the entire episode.

I'm glad that writers had Deacon call Beth "precocious." I guess that's better than my calling her annoying and hoping we never see her again.

-- So Ashley's way of moving on from Derek is to bring up Cheryl who is interested in him? God, she is insufferable. -- Kat clocked Eva again and I am down with it. If Eva changes -- and stops burying the bodies from her mother's messes -- maybe I'll revisit. Until then, I'm #TeamKat. -- When Kat walked in Orphey Gene's, I thought, "What is that hat?" Within 5 seconds, I knew she was perfectly dressed as Essential Kat. -- I don't have an answer for it, but that coffee corner set does not work. A conversation between Eva and Laura was interesting, but that set takes me out of the story every time. -- Nothing about Tomas says "I'm smart enough to be partner in a prestigious law firm."

Yesterday, Michael and Lauren reserved the GCAC restaurant for their anniversary celebration. Today, Billy and Sally reserved the GCAC lounge for their Abbott launch party. I feel sorry for the other guests at that hotel.

Shouldn't Portia be showing by now?

-- Dani and Ted and everyone else supporting Eva to Kat can get bent. #TeamKat -- Martin was thankful to Ted...for screwing up and starting over again? Seems like a weird thing to thank him for. Martin said "You showed me the way" and Ted puffed out his chest. We need more scenes with father and son, but they need to make sense. -- 😂🤣😂 when Randy asked Shanice if she knew anything about a friend of his who collapsed. When she told him to check the ER, he said "Every time he's been sick before, it's been in this area." Is Randy THAT STUPID or are these writers on crack? Then she asked for the friend's name and he walked away. NONE of it made sense. -- Randy and Hayley are dumb and dumber.

-- Brooke is CRYING over Hope getting married, which is hilarious since this is the FOURTH time she's marrying Liam. She was also married to Thomas and Wyatt, which makes this her SIXTH marriage, and these Logan sisters are so effing clueless it's unreal. -- $Bill looks overdressed compared to the other men at the wedding. -- Brooke looks nice, but her dress screams "I think I'll upstage the bride" to me. -- I still can't stand Beth.

That was perfect. The highest level of camp! Just hilarious! -- I wanted Nicole to make a bigger fuss over the flowers Kial brought her, but I get it: She can be a distant and mysterious ice princess while also being magnetic and impossible to resist -- and she knows it. -- Daphnee Duplaix and Greg Vaughan had INSTANT chemistry. Good for GATES for going for it right away. Those muscle relaxation scenes -- with Kial's hands on Nicole's neck -- were hot! -- Dani has some good advice for Kat, but pushing her to move in with Tomas after such a short time is not.

I was on complete fast-forward for the entire episode.

I agree with all of that. The show is beating Y&R in the 18-49 demo, so I'm sure Brad Bell thinks he's doing a great job. The dearth of scenes with Deke and Remy is pathetic, although history should have told us to expect this. We're not going to get a gay love story, and I wouldn't be surprised if they decide Deke is bisexual. Oh, and also, I cannot stand Beth.

I appreciate that. I do think my criticism is constructive. I didn't point to specific posts or posters, because honestly, I can't tell if these people are referring to me or to someone else. Maybe I'm a little paranoid, but some of the comments here are pointed, calling the criticism condescending. MontyB, I really don't want to point to specific posts or specific posters. All I can tell you is that comments have been made about people who make negative posts. I honestly can't tell if those comments are or aren't directed at me. Sorry for getting away from a discussion of the show.

My criticism has been harsh the past few episodes, but I've tried to be clear about any point I've made. I'm more than happy to see polar opposite opinions here. It's good to discuss different elements of the show. The views of those of us who have had problems with the show aren't worth more than the views of those who are happy with the show, but they're not worth any less, either. Our opinions are just as valid. I don't enjoy writing posts like this, but while I and others are judging the show, some posters here are judging us for being negative. You have a right to do that, of course. I'm just pointing out that there's a difference in the criticism. My opinion is only an opinion. If you loved WinterFest, good for you. I'm happy you were satisfied. I wasn't. I'm open to criticism about anything and everything I say, but you don't diminish my opinion with "You're always negative so you're constant bitching is worthless." I do hope we get 3 great GATES episodes the rest of the week. Nothing would make me happier.

"'-- I've grown to really dislike these standalone flashback episodes. -- As others pointed out, they're just reminders of what this show used to be -- the sets that were used, the characters who had storylines and weren't trotted out only for "a very special episode" like this one. -- And once again ANOTHER restaurant in town has been rented out for the occasion? So all the people staying at the GCAC are told "Eat and hang somewhere else"? -- Not only are no extra dining guests needed, but no staff is around either. Great for that Y&R budget. -- But let's AGAIN let Phyllis interrupt and interfere and crash the party. JFC.

Let me also point out that one reason I have a huge problem with Joey and Vanessa is that they are white people running roughshod over Blacks and POC -- blackmailing, controlling the police department, working over a sitting Congressman, operating the escort service that so many POC in the area apparently need. I know that everything isn't about race, but I expected this show to be more sensitive to the optics. I'm white, but I hate the optics to so much of this. You cannot throw in historical references and talk about Black legacy and then follow through with white people in control.

I agree. I hate the whole mobster thing. If Vanessa is really falling for Joey, it's ridiculous. If she's trying to trap him, it's ridiculous. Why would she have to go public to take him down? How does that protect her kids or her own reputation? It doesn't make any sense. And now she's getting drunk over Joey every day? Uh....ok. Regardless, it's hard to take a mob boss seriously when Randy is his right-hand man.

-- So Vanessa lived in a "gilded cage" with Doug? It's his fault that she turned into a whore? -- Vanessa's tears over Golden Corral Casino Mobster Joey are pathetic. -- This show needs to make up its mind about where Banneker is. Izaiah works there, right? Yet Vanessa's kids are always painted as being miles and miles away from home. Now they're going on a "ski vacation with friends" for Christmas instead of spending even 5 minutes with their mother. Real family bonding and concern. -- Of course, with their mother making out in public with the local mobster, maybe these twins have the right idea. -- Randy and Hayley are again meeting in public. God, I love dumb criminals.

All true. We're not doing the show any favors by praising disappointing events that were built up like crazy. "It was fun and festive"? Really? That's what we're accepting now? I can rip Y&R every day for the garbage they're feeding us. I don't because right now I don't care about Y&R at all. I do care about GATES, and that's why I'm calling them out. If you disagree, that's fine, but I don't think this kind of stuff builds an audience or keeps an audience around. If you look closely at the ratings, Y&R is in a continual loss pattern -- and that's a show where many viewers are there out of habit. BTG doesn't have that habit viewing hold yet. It's too soon ro settle for "Well, at least some of the dresses were cool."

You are absolutely right. No other evidence as to the power of Tik Tok than to look at the ratings resurgence of Dancing With the Stars. SO much of the credit there goes to social media like Tik Tok and Instagram. I am stunned that BTG isn't using these platforms. -- Just started watching today's show, but Anita spends more time at the hospital than the doctors and nurses. -- The secrecy between Vernon and Sharon has now moved into the ANNOYING category.

-- A big deal was made of Leslie's involvement in the Fest, but we got nothing but a Pepe LePew insult at a character no one cares about. -- Why not have Tracy and Sharon sing if honoring Barbara was so important? Instead we got Keke singing one Christmas song.

They need an excuse for what we ended up getting. That was not good soap and I don't understand how anyone can be satisfied with it.

-- Josh Swickard is gorgeous. Wasting him on AS is a sin. -- I hope Valentin wipes the blood off his face soon. -- It is impossible to take the WSB seriously when Joss is a major player.

WinterFest was a DUD. I was so wrong about Vernon singing at the Fest. Instead, they're dragging out this insipid "Is he cheating?" storyline and substituting "legends" like Keke Wyatt. That's one reason the whole thing was a dud. Why mention the auction a dozen times and never show it? Then Eva takes Izaiah ice skating -- wearing that Ace bandage dress -- and all we get is a 10-second scene telling us that he fell down on the ice. What the hell are they doing to the Vanessa character? These scenes all tell us she's really falling for the Golden Corral Casino Mobster. If at some point we find out she's trying to take down Joey, they're crazy if they think we're going to forget all this crap. Exactly. I don't know how anyone can criticize Kat for any of that. Honestly, though, Kat is behaving differently with Tomas than she did. It's a 180 and she doesn't seem all that interested in him. -- I cannot believe we got TWO MONTHS of WinterFest buildup and ended up with this. -- Were there good/fun moments? Yes. But Vanessa's tongue, Leslie's Pepe LePew, and Dani's (harmless) shade at Ashley do not make up for "I can't believe that happened" or "That was so good." -- The intro of Greg Vaughan was good, but again, that doesn't make up for the lack of anything else. -- One thing they got right was having a ton of extras, but having someone like Martin missing -- a Congressman who's been talking about a tough re-election campaign -- made no sense. -- The changes on the writing team are not working out.

John McCook is chewing the scenery like nobody else 🤣

I love it that Ridge and Brooke spent about $75 on Eric's forced "retirement party." HILARIOUS😂

-- Dr. Kyle Rollins' first line is "WinterFest has exceeded my expectations." Dude, you just walked through the front door. -- Naomi was brutal to Hayley. Haven't we seen them be civil to each other lately? Now we're back to "You're evil and my family hates you"? -- It's great seeing so many cast members at the event, but this constant call to things off-screen (now there's an ice skating rink!) is annoying.