Vee

I suspect they would've gotten more had Season 4 been able to happen. I just assume they're doing better and Bobby and Shelly sorted things out.

@DRW50 this is sourced from Empire Magazine, per Frost confirming TP is done. It also gives insight into Lynch's own thoughts on the ending of Season 3, which match yours long ago (and some of mine): I do think they would've gone forward with Season 4 eventually had Lynch lived and moved past that ending, but it's good to hear more of Lynch's own perspective which he rarely would offer openly on narrative.

It's true. But she's also outright said so herself in her hotline, on her social media, etc. - that she was horribly hurt by JFP pushing her out, and felt she had to come back and always be 'on' and pushing very hard onscreen to keep impressing the show and keep her place, lest she 'bore' the control room. I sympathize with her feelings, but it wasn't conducive to her quality of work. That did start long before Carlivati, it was there from the beginning when Michael Malone brought her back in early '03. Though it certainly got even broader later. Robin still did a lot of good work, but she was too often in a different, histrionic gear vs. the 90s for me. You could no longer depend on her to bring an emotional scene down to ground level. Certain partners helped her find that still, though: Pamela Payton-Wright as the renewed Addie who challenged Dorian's point of view about wanting Viki's life (and they should've had so much more of the sisters), Brittany Underwood who she had a wonderful rapport with, etc. Erika sometimes as well, not because Erika couldn't be subtle but because it was rare in the 2000s when the writing didn't demand Viki and Dorian still go at it hammer and tongs. And Robin and KDP are very close offscreen and on but their relationship ceased being a quiet one in the '90s. And yes, Malone, Strasser, etc. also have made no secret of it being a hard adjustment early in 1993 and that the writers didn't know what to do with her in the beginning, that they'd simply had to deal with a prestige return brought upon them. They did correct once the big umbrella story settled, but Robin of course spent the next 30 years griping about that because she wanted to still be the one who killed Victor Lord even though she gave Malone the idea to retcon it lol. I am not disputing the soap press take at the time. I just know that within a year or two I never saw a hint of anything like that in the mags from fans, or on the online soap forums of the era where I was lurking while far, far too young. (And where actors like James DePaiva would knock around occasionally complaining about Max being domesticated, unaware then that the Internet is forever.) It's been mentioned, but to her credit Robin has gone out of her way to say on Twitter that Elaine Princi was treated very unfairly by the show on her behalf.

I also think they're missing a trick not putting Dani and Anita together (or head to head) more. That relationship seems deeply fraught.

I know it was rocky early in '93, I just don't remember it being some kind of major catastrophe with Robin being disliked by a majority of fans. The show also course-corrected fairly quickly over the next year, the whole Victor, etc. saga was huge and the early Emily Haynes nonsense was forgotten. That period being rough is no secret, but sometimes we substitute recent forum sentiment for past conventional wisdom. I don't think it's any shade at Princi to say that in the eyes of most people, Robin adjusted in time and so did the show. It was Robin's final run on the show in the 2000s after coming back in '03 that was marred by her own fear of being fired/pushed out again. She overacted a ton (somewhat by her own admission) because per her own words she feared if she didn't go 200% the show would lose interest in her. I still always enjoyed her, but you could feel it onscreen and I missed what she was capable of when she was less traumatized. There was plenty of baroque story for Robin and Dorian in the '90s but it was never done with her yowling most of her lines or endlessly malapropping French, unlike the last years.

Princi is great but she was indeed a very deliberate ringer Rauch hired to get at Robin when she refused to return in '90. She claimed he told her the audience would forget all about her. That's not quite what happened but Princi did very well, especially after Gottlieb and Malone came in. (I don't think the rocky adjustment period for Robin in '93 was quite as rocky as people claim, but I'm biased as I came in around the same time she first came back.) It's the Nancy Pinkerton era we've recently unearthed from the '70s you should check out - what a fascinating iteration of the character.

I am finally getting back to October '91 and going straight through, so I'll be behind whatever else is being discussed here but will likely offer my tedious meanderings if they still appeal to people.

Apparently the show's decision. I am not exactly weeping over this, as I found Collins a very cliche 'grumpy old flame' potential love interest character. I suspect the rumors are true re: there being issues with Ifeachor's very public affiliation with a major right-wing, anti-LGBT/anti-abortion megachurch.

Exactly. Which is why I keep bringing that scene (and Brenda) up, and it's not like I was one of their OG stans. It took me years to come around on Brenda in general. But that is the only reality that's penetrated his life in years, except for a brief interval last spring, or when Michael found out about A.J. ten years ago. Beyond that he and Carly have opted to live in a cozy fantasy world. And once upon a time Tamara's and even Sarah's knew better.

Sonny always says this stuff, but nothing ever changes. He never actually lets them go, they never walk away, more people get hurt or die and it's the same old thing. Tedious.

Nicole is too violent? Opposite Leslie, the mad cyclist?

She does really resemble '99/'00 Sarah Brown there, lol. Right down to the top and straps.

I think KMM absolutely can do that kind of character. She showed that spite for Nina for several years. There's no need to ever recast this role - it's not that integral.

It's very, very similar and has been since the beginning. I'm sure that's why she was cast.

I think part of it was just the clear trajectory onscreen. It made sense for people to think Ava was on the block given where she was going (very dark again). I just suspected she would weasel out and Valentin would get it, because PM seemed into her. And yeah, I pretty much let it go and ignore it with Nina and Ava at this point. They're fun together. But I also didn't care when Mulcahey burnt it because I have a long memory.

The thing is that MVJ clearly wants to honor and showcase Jon Lindstrom, who she shepherded to stardom at GH personally as Kevin/Ryan. Which is admirable in theory, but instead onscreen the surprise has been Lauren Bugliogi basically becoming the same kind of screwball star Lynn Herring did when MVJ transformed the Lucy character and put her with Kevin.

I can't remember who was with me on thinking Mulcahey had the long game with Ava and wouldn't kill her - titan? kalbir? Anyway, that was my thinking at the time, that he was repositioning her as a strong villainess, that she and Valentin would link up (as each had discovered what the other was doing to Sonny) and then Valentin would ultimately take the fall for the whole thing. But I can see her being offed as being very possible at the time. The factor that makes me think that may have been the case is that the instant PM was out, someone (most likely Van Etten) set to immediately repairing Ava's sympathetic, fan favorite relationship with Nina and Trina, which had been lain waste.* While either that same someone or IMO someone else (most likely Korte) had Sonny kick her out and most of the town put Ava back on her heels again, broke and desperate once more. Not unlike how the same creative team treated Nina when she took Sonny from Carly. (* - personally I never bought the Nina/Ava friendship given their history and didn't care, but they do have lovely chemistry as actors so I don't mind it and hoo boy were the fans pissed) That's just funny lol. I'll eventually stop returning to this analogy (not any time soon), but the Cody thing reminds me of Tonja Walker playing with various boytoys on OLTL. It's the same spirit, while Ric serves another aspect of the character. If Cody doublecrossed Kristina because Ava has him down bad I wouldn't blink.

Lindstrom is very good at certain things on certain shows and I applaud MVJ for trying to branch him out again, but this isn't really his wheelhouse. I do think he still projects menace as Joey in certain scenes, but it isn't quite what they're intending a lot of the time. I also vary by the day on whether he and LB have serious chemistry or whether it's just sad. It's weird that it's like that! I do think Lauren Buglioli is a star and has been since Day 1. The woman playing Samantha is quite good but has long since passed her Bianca Lawson zone in terms of looking age appropriate. This is why they should've kept their first instinct and stayed with Martin and Smitty's kids as small children, and if they wanted to use the actors brought them in as young cousins or something. I do think any time Mike Manning gets out amongst the canvas as a reporter he shines. His dueling interplay with Timon Durrett is especially sharp.

I think Steve might call the White House in protest.

Thank you!!

It is wild to say Ric is beneath Ava. They are the same class of character and person. Nikolas and Ava worked for awhile, til they turned them into a normie soap couple. They were always dysfunctional horny people. If Tyler had recovered and returned I think it'd be another story. I could see they had heat together during his last days on the show.

I alluded to this in a post above but I think the truth is a lot of fans do not know what they want re: Ava. This is not new for soap fans obviously, but what they want is more of the character. They want the character to do well or be well. They want them to not be endangered. Those are common soap fan wants for any beloved character, good or bad, since the beginning of the genre, but there's a limit to what you should coddle. And I think often certain folks at the show's love for Maura has made Ava too soft to try to keep her viable, while other times you get the extreme opposite. Supposedly when Maura was first hired Ava, incredibly, was only supposed to be on for a week or so to intro Kiki and Roger Howarth's Franco. She was dynamite in that first week (including with Howarth, something they unfortunately could never really capitalize on given his toxic character) and RC and FV immediately hooked into keeping her. But as Ron often did (and continued at DAYS) he went full bore with the character murdering people, framing people, etc. with little thought to the long-term future. I have no problem with that because Ava's turned out to be one of the few enduring rivals Sonny has ever had. The difference between someone like her and feral Faith Rosco is Ava could move in multiple spheres, while Cynthia Preston's Faith never lost her edge. Ava has lost hers a number of times (and gained it again), but for all her inconsistencies she still has more dimension as a character than Faith. While Faith, for all her memorable villainy, too often was used as a blow-up doll and fetish object by Pratt and Guza. Ava's stories are not always great (or good). But Maura is excellent and is what has made Ava last. The Alex Olanov from OLTL model remains the way forward with Ava. You can play her harder while still giving her wins and some dimension. But IMO the issue is it seems like one writer at the show wants to write Ava like a slightly harder-edged Carly Snyder, and the other just hates her and wants her gone as Carly's enemy. So she's kind of a weird in-between zone. I guess it's good she has Rick Hearst atm.

Yeah, her fans get real mad if you remind them Ava is not just Carly Snyder on a permanent bad day. Whenever Ava starts actually being Ava it's time for loads of tweets about how her character has 'evolved' and is being 'character assassinated'. She came on this show murdering innocent people! She helped get ol' skinhead Morgan blown up! Ava fortunately has not gone back to being a total milksop again since last year, but I was much more into Ava the scheming Iago in Sonny's lair under Mulcahey, where I would not have been shocked if it had ended up in some con marriage as she dragged his drugged ass to the altar for power. The Ric thing is good, the flirtation with Cody is interesting, but at the same time her current situation also feels like a B/C-tier holding pattern because Korte or whoever just doesn't like her but knows they can't get rid of her. (I say Korte because the instant Mulcahey was out the door, everyone on the show turned full guns on Ava again - while CVE, I assume, restored her relationships with Nina and Trina.)

I think the difference here is that Drew and Willow are kind of in a Susan Moore, Heather Webber, etc. position. They're not Sonny and Jason being venerated and getting away with everything. People know them, hate them and they do take hits, like Drew losing his fight over the crypt or Willow losing her kids. But they also keep making moves. So in that sense it's not fully like Billy Warlock's A.J. either - it might feel that way if the mob was stronger on the show today, but the mob element of the show feels considerably weakened and like an afterthought vs. the Q intrigue, even when it's being played onscreen.

I get it. But the thing is Nina has been around since (I can't believe this) 2014, and even her debut years were a bomb lol. It wasn't til the Sonny/Nina thing that she really caught on with a certain group of fans, and that was over seven years into the character's run on the show! Willow has been on for almost seven years herself, and most of those years were blindingly boring. It's only FV that keeps dud characters around this long, because he is so wedded to his version of the show or his hires. Am I glad they have found something new and interesting for Willow that makes her worth keeping awhile longer? Certainly, I would never have expected it (and it came from a HW that in their minds they couldn't have dumped fast enough). Do I think the problem the show has with sunk cost characters has changed? Not at all.