DramatistDreamer

Also, when your forebears were slaves, you cannot help but think that although times are difficult now, times have been much worse and that you are here because they were able to survive calamity and utter degradation. My mother migrated to employers who made mostly undelivered promises. This was not the vaunted land of opportunity for her that it was supposed to be but she made the most out of an often negative and exploitative circumstance. Only when I got much older, did I realize the sacrifices my mother made and her life in the U.S. was actually a downgrade from where it was in her home country. She went from being considered relatively middle class in her home country to low-income, working her fingers to the bone in the U.S. Somehow, she managed to visit home and my parents managed to take us to see and stay with relatives so we'd always have a good sense of where our people were from and that just happened to be across an ocean. Honestly, I don't know how she managed all of this but my enduring image of her from childhood was her sitting quietly and balancing her checkbook, her making a weekly budget and grocery list (we rarely ever ate out, which as a child could be frustrating). In this day and age, where kids have cellphones by age 10, it's all but impossible to live as simply as we did growing up. Oh and we didn't own a car, we walked everywhere...even more than a mile to the supermarket (lol) and back, while countless cars zoomed by us. Back then you could be working class and actually travel once every couple of years, if you were frugal. Today, it's all but completely impossible. I guess I'm grateful that I did grow up in a dual culture. At the time I was ostracized by American kids for being different but now, even that made me resilient, to deal with the hard times when they come (and they still do unfortunately).

I love Nina Simone's music! The compilation sets of her music have yet to do her justice though. I have two different "Best Of Nina Simone" music sets and neither have all of her most important songs but one has a beautifully indulgent arrangement of "Black Is The Color of My True Love's Hair" on it, so I can't be too disappointed in the selections on that particular CD.

Obama, the man (if not the politician) has always been somewhat globally-minded though. I'll just put it this way-- he's been more open to a global mindset. As someone whose family hails from elsewhere, I definitely understand the mindset, I think it's more akin to where my thought processes are. Before I had turned 5, I had traveled outside of the U.S. By the age of 7, I had my own passport. Like Obama, being raised around cultures that were not centered around an American way of life was part of my upbringing. So I think I always had it in mind that it was possible to live and adapt to live elsewhere. My mother had two children when she moved to the U.S. from the Caribbean. She did it for better opportunity and it was very hard and the challenges of being a 'foreigner' and a black and female foreigner totally alone in a strange country (my father couldn't even join her until two years later) were very real but I think I grew up seeing family in various parts of the world who had moved thousands of miles away from where they had been born and raised and having to adapt to and begin a new life in unfamiliar lands. I think it's in my DNA (lol). I think because of my personal experience the idea of moving to another country (provided they are not overtly hostile to people of color, or more hostile than America, I should say) is an entirely realistic one.

I actually think that when you listen to Simone's version it is in keeping with the sound of a lot of the more mellow sounds of the late 60s, kind of groovy, kind of funky, like the Fifth Dimension, some Sly and the Family Stone, even some early little Stevie Wonder tunes. Nina's music will always stand out but it definitely seems to fit within the pantheon of some of the music of that era.

Have you ever heard the version that Nina Simone did? I would say that both have elements of soul-- Nina's cover came out a few years before this one and it seems like a groovy version infused with elements of spirituals, while Aretha's version is steeped in blues with elements of gospel. Enjoyable versions both.

I avoided that coverage because I know full well how it would be covered regardless of whether the event occurred with or without incident. I watched a good portion of the actual service (again, I missed the eulogy) and the eulogy comprised a brief portion of the comments on my social media, at least. It also depended on which hashtag you followed also, as I understand there were two: One was entitled Aretha Franklin Homegoing which had a very different tone and emphasis than the one entitled Aretha Franklin funeral. Only in America can social media have segregated hashtags that highlighted two completely different aspects of the service. Again, I don't expect U.S. mainstream media to highlight anything but the negative, especially when it comes to black folk.

From what I heard of Sharpton, he seemed to stayfocused in his remarks. I thought he did well (especially compared to the pastor who did the eulogy and the groper pastor). Yes, Sharpton's reputation precedes him, but just as the way he was at Michael Jackson's memorial, he was in full black pastor mode at the funeral. I only heard positive things about his remarks. Yes, the service was too long and some people just didn't fit in (I like Faith Hill but this is the second time I've seen her fizzle while singing at a big occasion) I don't think it's fair to say that Aretha was an afterthought. The Clarke Sisters, The Williams Brothers, Stevie Wonder, Smokey Robinson, Gladys Knight, even Fantasia all paid considerable due to Aretha. The Clarke Sisters and Williams Brothers, in particular really brought authentic black church gospel to the fore. I thought Cicely Tyson and her big, bountiful church lady black hat gave a wonderful performance. At 93 years of age! To crystallize the whole 6+ hour celebration to less than a handful of unfortunate incidents seems a tad dismissive. It was big and showy and heartfelt at times and also a bit messy, and unapologetically black...kind of like the life of a huge entertainer of Aretha's status. Honestly, what else did people expect?

The U.S. press has always disliked Black people, especially prominent ones, it goes all the way to before MLK. I'm sure they are hoping to get a Obama vs. Trump narrative but Obama won't play ball. He is speaking because 1.) he was getting an award and 2) he is clearly in campaign mode for midterms, trying to get out the vote. Trump has been trying to bait Obama for years, now more than ever to try to distract from the smoldering garbage fire that is the current White House. Obama didn't take the bait back then and he won't do it now. Obama may be helping Democratic candidates with midterms but in many senses, he's already moved beyond the United States. Watching him speak in South Africa last month, it became apparent that Obama, through his foundation has gone global.

Okay, this is sort of off-track but weirdly sorta on-topic. It belongs in ATWT thread because it concerns a strange piece of trivia about 2 alumnae. I was doing research on IMDB and veered off into reading about A Different World (my persistent obsession with finding a playlist of songs from Season 1 episodes) and got further sidetracked reading the bits of trivia. I'm sure most of you know that Marissa Tomei (Marcy) was featured in Season 1 but did you know that Meg Ryan (Betsy Andropolous) was originally cast to play the role but by then was actively pursuing a movie career and turned down the role of Maggie Lauten? I thought I knew all the BTS factoids but somehow this one missed me! Maggie, Meg and Marissa.

I could see it working well. And the nature of the online versions would have offered a bit more flexibility for Holly's schedule. Darn, too bad the online versions got cut short but at least there was an attempt.

@Darn I know some didn't like the 2.0 version but even back then, I thought it would've been wonderful if they had brought her on as Jeffrey King's (Corbin Bleu) grandmother. It could've deepened his ties to the canvas without being too incestuous.

I was just in the other thread reading @Juliajms's post and speaking of POS who perceive themselves to be "masters of the universe", I clicked on CBSNews' livestream to see the idiot-in-chief railing with the chryon at the bottom of the screen quoting him as saying that he supposedly fell asleep during President Obama's speech. You're the president of the god*damn United States of America and you're asleep in the middle of the f*ckin' day?? We all know he's lying but still, think about what he just said...

The press seems thirsty for a presidential quality speech that is coherent and sincere. I'm sorry I missed this speech, I always look forward to these occasions and they are becoming fewer and far between.

This seems to be the byproduct of working within an industry where 'who you know' is more important than 'what you know'.

I never saw any of those others get 'punished' with the same venom as Janet. As entertaining as Madonna was/is, I've seen her pull some very cheap stunts over decades, including saying/doing some highly incendiary sh*t, there was days of grumbling but nothing that could be construed as blacklisting. As for Chen, like I posted/ranted on the previous page, she should've sat down and ate her food. She's used (some may say abused) her very public platform to not so subtly mete out pointed criticism to try to justify Janet being blacklisted, it's not rocket science to discern why. Now that her scummy husband is under the microscope, again she used her public media platform to try to curve the narrative and also save herself from having to answer 'tedious' questions about her husband's behavior, when she could've just said nothing. People would've grumbled but it would've been a sure shot better than her haughty holier-than-thou speech scolding people for actually wanting to know what was going on. I don't watch the show but that clip was played Ad nauseum on every media platform.

Reading about Moonves' involvement in stalling Janet's career with the intent to destroy her is making me angry all over again! Imagine if Janet had been so desperate as to turn to substance abuse like Whitney, we could've lost her. Moonves is even more of a misogynist than I thought. He disgusts me daily. He should be getting the Weinstein treatment too. I never thought it was a stunt on Janet's part. It was choreography gone wrong. As someone who once performed onstage and had to have 'quick changes' just beyond the stage, I know things can go wrong in seconds. And yes, I've had things go wrong with costumes, although thankfully nothing on Janet's level. I think in this society, Black people, Black women, in particular are regarded as Jezebels that are up to no good, with the assumption of guilt. It's a slave mentality (she seduced the Massa). Historians who like to paint themselves as feminists can still, with a straight face, maintain that Sally Hemmings seduced Thomas Jefferson and not that a middle aged white plantation owner raped a 16 year old girl, multiple times, leading to her bearing multiple children that he kept enslaved. Blame Sally, of course because Jefferson, one of the founding fathers, couldn't have possibly been wrong. Same mentality, IMO. Paint Janet as Jezebel, contaminating family-oriented, CTE causing late-afternoon entertainment. SMDH. EDT: And another thing-- Julie Chen should go too. Initially, I was thinking she should leave just The Talk because people seem to want her to stay on BB (two shows that I admit to not watching) but she sat there on The Talk and haughtily defended him when she should've said something like "I love my husband but I will not speak on this at this time, as it involves a deeply personal matter to me") but she had to scold people for daring to call out her husband. She should've just sat there and ate her food, so to speak. So she can go too but I doubt a company as soulless and pathological as CBS will do anything. The same company that is bestowing a platinum parachute on a predator.

They were likely afraid of even greater resistence had PGP made it publicly known years in advance. So much more, had the show actually have been of good quality writing/production. They may have wanted to prevent those 'crazy soap fanatics' from doing the utmost to keep a still good quality show on the air. The higher the level of degradation in terms of quality, the less mass resistance to the show going off air. And if it was a 'slow bleed', so much the better for them. Fans would be too fatigued and depressed to mount a vigorous fight by the end. In the process, the fallout would be reduced. (*Case in point, I don't see much in the way of boycotting P&G's products. What dropoff they've had in sales has mostly to do with basic competition from new companies offering better alternatives (non-toxic, organic, minimal ingredient, etc.) to what they offer. Tide detergent is being outflanked by the likes of Seventh Generation and Mrs. Meyer's. Ivory has intense competition from Lever produced soaps and 'natural' brands like Dr. Bronners. There is just more and better variety of products on the market. By the looks of things, PGP has adapted to a smaller percentage of market share anyway*). Corporations are far more adept at playing the 'long game' than many of us actually realize.

I actually think that this is what the people of New Jersey sent Booker to the Senate to do.

Alfred Hitchcock made a lifetime career of these types of creative renderings. Perhaps Phillips missed her calling in suspense.

Ugh, so gross!

Les Moonves had a lot of help from within the ranks of CBS. Getting rid of him (and the 'Golden Parachute' is beyond insulting) is solving only half the problem, since sexism and misogyny have become part and parcel of CBS' DNA in how it functions as an organization, at virtually every level (news, daytime, primetime, limited series, etc.).

The genius of Irna Phillips was definitely in her ability to create and conceptualize these show and some of their characters and story trajectories. Those were her skills, which, unfortunately did not include human resources, personnel or talent relations. I also think that being a woman in any position of authority, especially during those times required a strong hand, and Phillips likely felt that she had to demonstrate a 'show of strength' as a woman doing what is generally thought of as a man's position. The problem is that, on occasion that 'show of strength' appeared to have ventured into tyrannical territory-- there really can be a fine line sometimes. It continues to be a source of great disappointment that there has never been a thoroughly complex, holistic assessment of Phillips and the industry that she created. It is worthy of a documentary series on the scale of Ken Burns' Jazz but it's yet another acknowledgement of how little people think of the daytime drama genre, even people within the industry seem to think very little of it, particularly the history. I believe that quite a few soap actresses had their careers tanked by abusive male executives and their long retaliatory reach. In fact, I think these same abusive execs eventually helped to sink the genre, which is why only shards remain. This is why I never believed the generalization that CBS executives stayed out of the affairs of their soaps. They were clearly the unseen hand, dipping in where they saw fit. If a network is airing your show, (especially if your program was housed in their network's building for a quarter of a century) even if they are not producing it, there is no such thing as no interference.