DramatistDreamer

The soap industry has forever promoted the notion that only external forces have caused the decline of the genre. Every soap/daytime drama podcast that I have listened to in the last decade has railed on about working women and the O.J. Simpson trial as the causes, but almost none have discussed the poor executive and creative choices that have resulted in ratings deterioration.

I also believe that their reasons for why the genre lost rating share were off base. They could have just gone on ahead and admitted that they didn't have the metrics available to evaluate just how many people were watching these shows overall, outside of live ratings. They blamed women for working outside the home without truly trying to figure out a way to measure how many were delayed viewing just like they fought for and found a way to measure DVR viewing, they should have done the same to agitate for the VCR. Industries can lobby and get changes within existing technology. I remember when VCRs had the A/B switch, them suddenly, it was gone and companies no longer equipped their machines with this feature. That most likely had to be an industry-led change, as the switch was a great piece of technology and there was no reason to remove it.

Unfortunately, it is highly unlikely that that show will be on network television, certainly not during the daytime, that is.

Me thinks that Texans should be asking more questions of their state and local elected officials. Like why some areas are connected to the federal electrical grid, while other areas are connected to a local/regional grid? Why were there no power reserves? Why did the power companies [!@#$%^&*] down these power stations for maintenance for the summer when so many states have been getting uncharacteristically extreme weather even in winter?

Speaking of comparisons between the current and the previous administrations:

Thinking about what you wrote here, I realize that my choice of words weren't clear. You're right, it did start much earlier. I should have said, it picked up in earnest around the mid 90s because there were still soaps were you saw characters through high school into college. On ATWT, as "fast" as Lily moved in life, she and Dusty attended Oakdale University. They even had majors and internships. Andy, Paul (athough he dropped out), Lien and Duke all went to college had part time jobs. Lien was a perfect example of a teenager (ironically Ming-Na was already in her early twenties) who acted like a teenager, grappling with the aspect of an emergence into adulthood). I didn't particularly care for most of the storylines of JJ, Parker and Faith but they definitely had a childhood and a noticeable onscreen introduction into teenage life. Maybe, it was just ATWT that did this, 😂. On GH, you at least had Robin, who grew up in front of viewers and Emily Q, at least when she was played by Amber Tamblyn, struck a decent balance. GL was somewhat problematic for me, in terms of the very adult issues that enveloped their teen characters. When you make teenage mothers (Harley) and incest victims (Beth) out of your teenage characters, it follows that you are more likely to "age" them and all in their cohort, both in tone and presentation. Harley, was presented as seemingly a "Jodie Foster" type, meaning more than just precocious, i.e., even when Foster portrayed a child, she didn't really come off as a child. Flash to the very early 00s and it's hard to find teenagers, girls in particular who weren't involved in adult stories. Y&R's Glow By Jabot "kids", Britney (no longer a girl, not yet a woman, to quote Britney Spears) Hodges (whose on and off boyfriend J.T. was secretly sleeping with her married mother) once had ambitions of becoming a stripper and became involved with and pregnant for Bobby Marsino, who seemed to be about twice her age. This made the age difference between Lily and Holden look like kids' stuff! Another Lily, on Y&R, lost her virginity to an Internet predator at 15 and by early 20s, was twice married with twins. What I'm really saying (I admit to not putting it properly), is that by the late 90s, this accelerated, to the point where it became difficult to find examples of age appropriate characterizations of teen characters, especially girls. Watch an episode of B&B these days and see if you can find any of the teenagers who actually attend school onscreen-- they're more likely to be only seen during the summer when they can be foisted in the middle of a summer romantic triangle. On the recent OLTL reboot a few years ago, did attend summer school, where he began promptly sleeping with his teacher! It just seems all but totally inescapable now, like they can't write a story without it. My point, exactly! Even if the writers write a fantastic death storyline for Jennifer, it still terminated any future options for th character which might have equally great or better. Just imagine if writers had allowed James Stenbeck to kill Barbara in that bullring in Spain! No doubt, the scenes would have played out dramatically and in dazzling fashion, ad it was shot on location, internationally. But what we would have missed in the decade ahead witj Barbara, Paul, James, even Emily in the years that followed!

Surprised that no one else has already posted this one. Anyways, another day, another lawsuit.

Rigjt now, I'm listening to my CD of 'The Miseducation Of Lauryn Hill' as a form of celebration of its Diamond certified status. Such a phenomenal achievement and well deserved.

This show boasts alumni who have who won Oscars, Tonys, Grammys and now the recipient of a certified Diamond status. Ordinarily, I would say "Your fave could nevah!" but ATWT is my favorite soap, so... 😂.

Lauryn Hill (Kiera, ATWT) just made history with her groundbreaking album " The Miseducation Of Lauryn Hill.

Someone, a grad student perhaps, might be able to give a great dissertation on the adultification of adolescent characters on television shows. It's kind of a disturbing trend that began sometime in the mid-late 90s and only continues. Soaps do this all the time now. Jesse Lee Soffer was a great find, as were quite a few actors (despite a few clunkers) but I must look at the total arc of the character- I can't compartmentalize the way I'd do with a character who had been on the show for decades and went through different eras. Will as a fully realized character had a shorter era on the canvas than Paul or even Andy, so I have to look at Will's total character arc in one complete arc, not many. Everything was accelerated but his evolution was still truncated. His past poisoning of his would-be SIL was never far behind in his personal narrative. Perhaps had the show remained on air, and we saw Will in a career, being a father, having his own storylines that didn't revolve completely around Gwen or his past, then I would have been able to say with confidence that Will was not undermined, undercut, deficient as a character, but I can't. This has nothing to do with Soffer, by the way. I feel similarly about Napiera Groves and Bonnie. Groves had a presence and comportment, and chemistry with Tamara Tunie that made me care about the character, despite the fact that the writing mostly had Bonnie looking like a vapid, vacuous princess. Just when the character began to show real, sustained personal growth, Bonnie was entangled in some convoluted storyline, then she was gone. At least, they didn't kill her off, I guess.

I agree. Killing off and severely undercutting the trajectory of your legacy characters bodes ill for the future of your show. I also agree that Jennifer was not as consequential as Maureen Bauer, especially the deficient way in which Jennifer had been written when she came of age. Sadly, Jennifer Munson was not even as impactful as Cassie Newman, but she should have been. Margo Hughes would be more been more comparable to Maureen Bauer (ironically, Ellen Dolan has portrayed both characters--I actually preferred her portrayal of Maureen to her portrayal of Margo, though overall, I loved Ellen Parker the most as Maureen). Now, i thought Ferrin was great as Jennifer but I agree--she wasn't irreplaceable, especially since the writing for her character had been mostly deficient until a year or so before the character's demise. Broadway provided 8 wealth of talent that the show could have drawn from for a recast-the show just wasn't interested as they were clearly planning their 5 year exit strategy. A quick list of legacy characters who had been either killed or diminished: Bryant Montgomery Jennifer Munson Danielle Androupolos Bonnie McKechnie Adam Munson Paul Ryan Lucy Montgomery even Will Munson, who'd been made into a child-sized killer, poisoning his brother's fiancee (who thought that was a good idea??)

IMO, the seeds for the show's demise had been planted at least 4-5 years prior to Jennifer's demise. I know that some will find this hard to believe since ATWT had won a Daytime Emmy during that period but that Emmy came at the cost of unravelling many aspects of the serial's DNA and it had become impossible to undo the damage.

While all but a few 'Big Retail' stores appear to be struggling, small, proprietor-run stores appear to be holding on and even thriving in some places. Being connected to the community in which they are located seems to be a big part of the reason why.

I posted a few of these things similarly, a few years ago. I had proposed that Tonio was hiding out in the jungles of Montega and had ties to the criminal underground via his previous association with James Stenbeck and that he had Bryant kidnapped after discovering that Craig and Sierra had been hiding his real son, Gabriel from him. Gabriel, the son of Sierra's former house keeper, was told that Craig was his bio-father to protect him from Tonio, as a promise Sierra made to Gabriel's mother on her deathbed. Sierra convinced a reluctant Craig to go along with this, pretend he had an affair that resulted in Gabriel, which Craig reluctantly agreed to. Word got back to Tonio who is furious and devises a plan to get Bryant in the hopes of drawing out his son, using Bryant as leverage. Sierra finds out that Tonio knows about Gabriel and there are rumors through the Sierra's contacts that there is a young man fitting Bryant's description in the remote area where Tonio has been hiding. Gabriel overhears Craig and Sierra discussing the whole thing and discovers the whole truth about his origins. Craig and Sierra plot their rescue of their son. The next morning, as they depart, they realize Gabriel has left. They wonder if he knows and discover he has taken some belongings and his passport. I'd have had them all converge in Montega. I said this before, but I would've loved for Hope Dixon to settle in Oakdale and be on the med-school track. To see her grapple with the pressures and weight of expectations of being the granddaughter if the former chief of staff as well as the step-granddaughter of another former chief of staff, as well as a woman of color. There could've been so much story to tell. Grandma Kim would've been her rock, provided a safe space. That new generation was right there for anyone to tell their stories. The way that John used to carry a chip on his shoulder, is the way Hope should also have had a chip on her shoulder, for slightly different reasons. John understands her but not entirely. Andy loves her but is worried that she might resort to drinking to deal with the pressures, as well as the struggles of being mixed ethnicity in mostly white Oakdale after being raised in a predominantly black environment with her mother Denise.

Oh, you're not old, lol. You provide a good amount of information. One of the reasons I lose my patience with P&G is that these classic episodes should have been available to stream at least once. I'd like to see it. Deep down, I knew it wasn't years but the same year??! That's absolutely depressing! I know I was watching somewhat regularly when both happened, but I just don't remember as much of the details from that period of the show. Yikes!

That's what I thought but I posed the question because of the previous post.

Admittedly, VG was before my time, I think I was in kindergarten when she left the role. It's probably because I knew nothing of Lyla's loose reputation from back in the day, and I am fine with that, lol.

Didn't Michael Baldwin have prostate cancer?

Hm, odd. I know that he once wrote for the show, at one point, but it strikes me as somewhat unprofessional to carry feelings because you don't get your first casting choice. I love Don but who did he think he was, Irna Phillips? 😂

The show made many savage and idiotic maneuvers in the 11th hour of the show's end run, and killing off Jennifer, Bryant and making Adam Munson a sociopath were just a few examples. Killing off Jennifer a few short years before the real life passing of Benjamin Hendrickson, seemed like a cruel twist in the end. Jennifer absolutely should've spent time as a vixen, following in her mother's previously trod footsteps. Instead, in a bid to make "fetch happen", TIIC were trying to make Katie some type of vixen, which was laughable. Then they wrote Jade as doing the work of a vixen, which is the work they should've had a grown woman doing. A mess! Nobody in that show's last twelve years knew how to write a woman character even half-way realistically. Hastings must have wanted Lyla and Bob to reunite then? And do what with Kim? I could not imagine Dennison's Lyla having four grown children and grandchildren. In Perhaps if the character were brought back in the show's last years. I could kind of see her as a Maggie Crawford recast though.

I agree, and neither Smith nor Dennison were of the caliber of actor capable of rising above the material. 90% of that story is FF material for me. It just doesn't hold up well, imo. The one point of interest was the fact that Daryl had sired a child by his sister-in-law Barbara. To add insult to injury, later writing regimes did almost nothing with the character of Jennifer Munson, giving her a brief spark before killing her off, which, in the long arc of Oakdale history, makes the character and all elements of that storyline feel pointless.

Hope the relief you need comes tomorrow.

It makes sense. So, of course, American daytime dramas won't do it. Just think of how much money, acclaim and talent CBS, NBC and ABC daytime has lost due to their inflexibility. Actors who were being ground down by the rigorous schedule asked for time off and couldn't get it and elected to leave. Productiom companies that left incompetent people in charge for way too long rather than make a concerted effort to search for fresh production talent. Refusing to even entertain the notion of merchandising products for the consumer marketplace because they'd have to *gasps* profit-share with the talent. The 60 minute episodes werr successful for about a decade and then they should have switched, just like they switched in the early 80s. Explain to viewers that, in order to be able to continue to make quality shows that are sustainable, they needed to revert to th "classic television soap model". Viewers might have grumbled at first, in which case they can level with the viewers that , if they keep going along this unsustainable route, many of their favorite soaps will inevitably be cancelled. TPTB never tried.