For recommendations for 90's primetime soap operas, I would suggest either Savannah ( 34 episodes, decent acting and plotlines, and ends with a satisfying conclusion instead of cliffhanger), or Melrose Place (Started as a thirtysomething aspirational drama, morphed into a Knots Landing soap in season 2, then morphs in an over the top crazy show in mid season 3, and tries to ground itself like Dynasty in its final season).

2 hours ago, Khan said:

KL's first season was strictly self-contained episodes, featuring stories with a clear beginning, middle and end that did not carry over to the next episode. As was typical of most one-hour shows from that period, some episodes were better than others, but all give you a good and proper introduction to the main characters, two of whom will remain until the series' end in '93.

I also think KL's first three seasons, even as they get slow at times or have eps you can skip (I have a must-watch ep list of my own somewhere as I am sure many fans do), have certain eps that while not serialized or 'important' are essential to understanding the characters and relationships that continue to power the show and story well into halfway through its run and probably beyond.

KL prioritized character and that institutional memory in a way many primetime soaps don't IMO.

Edited 2 hours ago2 hr by Vee

12 minutes ago, Vee said:

I also think KL's first three seasons, even as they get slow at times or have eps you can skip (I have a must-watch ep list of my own somewhere as I am sure many fans do), have certain eps that while not serialized or 'important' are essential to understanding the characters and relationships that continue to power the show and story well into halfway through its run and probably beyond.

KL prioritized character and that institutional memory in a way many primetime soaps don't IMO.

ICAM!!

1 hour ago, Reverend Ruthledge said:

The first season, however, gave off the most Bergman vibes.

I agree with you and with @EricMontreal22 : first season KL aspires to be a spiritual cousin to "Family" and to the domestic dramas of Ingmar Bergman as well. It just doesn't have the same level of writing or casting.

2 hours ago, wonderwoman1951 said:

elements of soap opera have found their way into a lot of shows not necessarily thought of as a primetime soaps: friday night lights, for example (prime video and paramount+). also: men of a certain age (hbo max).

Oh, soap elements now pervade nearly every scripted show on TV, as has been discussed (ie you can get your soap fix of serialized story telling so many ways now...) I guess people point out that this started with shows like Hill Street Blues which mixed a procedural with overarching storylines. I'm a huge fan of the Herskovitz/Zwick TV dramas (thirtysomething, My So-Called Life which they produced but didn't create but Winnie Holzman, who wrote for thirtysomething did and most of the writers were from it, and Once and Again especially) and get a lot of the same pleasures from them as I do from soaps, but they're not really soaps (in fact when Herskovitz/Zwick were brought on as showrunners for the final two seasons of the soapy Nashville they weren't a great fit, though there was some promise)... You mention Friday Night Lights which was adapted for tv and run by Jason Katims who got his start writing on MSCL and had his own shortlived series produced by Herskovitz/Zwick, Relativity (which is all on YT which is nice as I thought I was the only one who remembered it existed,) etc.,

2 hours ago, YRBB said:

I have to disagree with everyone LOL

The best introduction to the primetime soaps is DALLAS. There's a reason why it was popular and a ratings hit from the very beginning. It is entertaining, it has its tone and style set from the very beginning, and remains very consistent for 10 seasons/years - except it becomes better and better and matures into a truly compelling saga.

I get why you'd say this and can't disagree, and yet it depends on what you like. As a teen anyway, Knots appealed to me much more because it was family drama but on a scale that I could relate to a bit more--Dallas has that whole Family Legacy angle, as well as a LOT of business shenanigans (which all these soaps did--that was very 80s--but) and if that doesn't appeal to you...

4 minutes ago, Khan said:

I agree with you and with @EricMontreal22 : first season KL aspires to be a spiritual cousin to "Family" and to the domestic dramas of Ingmar Bergman as well. It just doesn't have the same level of writing or casting.

Jacobs quoted Scenes from a Marriage in his pitch, right?

22 minutes ago, EricMontreal22 said:

I'm a huge fan of the Herskovitz/Zwick TV dramas (thirtysomething, My So-Called Life which they produced but didn't create but Winnie Holzman, who wrote for thirtysomething did and most of the writers were from it, and Once and Again especially) and get a lot of the same pleasures from them as I do from soaps, but they're not really soaps (in fact when Herskovitz/Zwick were brought on as showrunners for the final two seasons of the soapy Nashville they weren't a great fit, though there was some promise)...

both herskovitz and zwick got their start writing for family (abc 1976), a show with deep roots in soaps — as the world turns, in particular.

beyond serality

3 minutes ago, wonderwoman1951 said:

both herskovitz and zwick got their start writing for family (abc 1976), a show with deep roots in soaps — as the world turns, in particular.

beyond serality

Oh yes! I'm well aware--as I said before I'm a huge Family fan. A number of writers started there--Ron Cowen and Daniel Lipman as well, who would go on to create Sisters and the American Queer as Folk (which I have issues with :P ) as well as the other things like the important gay TV movie An Early Frost (they also were on Knots Landing for a bit...) Richard Kramer (who has become an online friend of mine) also started as a Family writer where he met Herskovitz and Zwick and became an important writer on most of their shows (including the famous "gay bed scene" episode of thirtysomething,) wrote the teleplay for the first Tales of the City, etc.

The best overall primetime soap is Knots Landing because it never became a shell of itself and it had a proper ending, something the other primetime soaps cannot claim. Michele Lee, Joan Van Ark, and Donna Mills are all very good playing layered characters. I'd say Knots is the most 'real' of the primetime soaps from this era.

For my money, season 2 - 4 of Dynasty are its best as a glitzy primetime soap that still had some edge, season 5 it starts to focus on a particular storyline that provides its most memorable season ending cliffhanger, and I liked season 9 much more than 6 - 8, where the show really lost its way. If you want to watch one woman singlehandedly reinvent a show, look no further than Joan Collins as Alexis Carrington Colby. She rocked it and nobody could have played that part like she did.

Dallas is solid for the first 10 years and then it starts to fall apart as several important cast members leave. It's also the primetime soap where the male characters were generally more important than the female characters. Larry Hagman is incredibly good as the incredibly bad JR.

Falcon Crest was never my show and the little I've seen over the years just confirms it.

Dallas first ten seasons or so are great. Knots is consistent but really starts coming into its own with season 4 through 6.

Dynasty is binge worthy for seasons 1-3 and 9. Falcon Crest for 1-through half of season 4 and season 9 is so bizarre you have to watch it. Melrose Place needs to be watched for at least seasons 2-3 and through half of season 4 where it goes off the rails (not in a good way!); in season 7 Peter Dunne from Knots comes in and reshapes the show and you wish there would've been a season 8. Beverly Hills 90210 is like crack between seasons 2-6; do it like Kelly and just sniff it.

What was your question again?

I will echo a little bit what @YRBB said, I definitely start with Dallas as well!!

Even though I agree Knots is the best out of all the 80’s primetime soaps, Dallas is still the gold standard. There’s something remarkably fantastic about Dallas 1978-1982, and it still makes for some very compelling drama to this day. Once the overall episodic 78-79 season comes to Julie Grey’s return and murder, the show is on fire.

Knots of course as others the best and most consistent soap overall, particularly Season 4-12.

Dynasty has a slow build, but then Seasons 2-4 and parts of 5 are fun and on fire. A mix of compelling drama and sheer entertainment for the most part. There’s an amazing final season, however it also takes three very bad, utterly pointless and bloated seasons to get to that point.

Then there is FC. Out of the big 4 80’s soaps, it to me is the funniest and most charming out of the four. Yet it is also the most wildly inconsistent. The first three and a half seasons and the 6th season are good to great. While IMO there are worse parts to FC (parts of Season 5, the entirety of a very boring and miserable Season 8), the final season is definitely a completely different season and feels like a different season of another TV show. At the least the show concludes on a high note.

90’s soaps? Definitely recommend Sisters, specifically the first 4 seasons make an almost perfect series. Sadly like FC the last two seasons the show becomes unhinged but the series concludes on a high note.

Melrose Place is like Dynasty, slow build in Season, wild ride for S2-S4, crash and burn for S5 and S6, and then a more or less solid final season.

90210, Party of Five, and Providence, and Once and Again have their ups and downs but definitely still worth checking out.

I agree with the Dallas contention. That show was such a global hit. If you want a something shorter, I suggest Flamingo Road, gone way too soon.

Am I the only one who loathes season 4 of Dynasty? It's genuinely terrible. People are fooled by the cast being intact.