@Sapounopera Jerry Douglas was 50 when he joined Y&R as 'old' patriarch John Abbott. Jack, Ashley and Traci drove the Abbott stories. John had adult stories because of Jill. While Kyle, Abby and dearly departed Colleen have all had materials, nothing comes close to what their parents had.

As you note, the Newman grandkids have not fared well at all. Noah, Mariah, Reed, Faith, Connor and Christian should driving that generation, the same way their parents did 30(!) years ago.

1 hour ago, Faulkner said:

Victoria is so stale as a character and really digging into her experience as a mother with three kids would offer at least something different. (Beyond using the younger two as chess pieces in her co-parenting situation with Billy, which I’m glad is no longer a thing.) The scope of the show feels too limited for it, though.

AH is 50, yet Y&R continues to play her character as the tormented ingenue desperately seeking the approval of her father, who himself needs to step aside and let a new generation flourish. Y&R is desperate and EB/Victor’s notoriety as the badass transcends the show. No one else comes close to his cachet. I’m glad EB is happy and healthy, but Victor is a sitcom character with a catchphrase at this point. After all these years, we’re still stuck playing out the same stories because they won’t allow the Newmans to evolve past this caricature of a ruthless patriarch.

Having a teen version of one of Victoria's kids, maybe Katie, on the show at this point would really help flesh the character out. Katie could disapprove of the relationship with Nate throwing another obstacle along Nate's path.

To me one big problem was the SORASING of the next gen way too soon. 

It began with Victoria. They lucked out with Heather Tom and Bill Bell's writing but it immediately aged up Nikki in particular but it was workable.

Then came Nick who was only 6 in real time when he suddenly was aged up. And married within a few years. Victor and Nikki were soon grandparents, but still getting romantic stories.

Then in about 10 years Noah was aged so you had the romantic travails of 3 generations of Newmans.

Too much too soon.

10 hours ago, Faulkner said:

Y&R’s glut of worn-out vets they refuse to either sideline or give age-appropriate stories, plus the severe budget issues, seems like a bad combo for any evolution.

It's the same problem on every remaining soap but especially Y&R and GH. The veterans are not moved out of first position, ever, so you have a traffic jam of squandered generations below them getting older on the vine, and more pointless kids and babies all the time.

That's not to say many of these veterans can't still have active and vital story - the age groups of 40-60 are not what they used to be in the '80s or '70s. But there's no attempt to really invest in much of the future generations at Y&R especially. With GH you have a mostly solid recent youth set getting story but too many kids below them, and too many of the wrong played-out people across a wide age range in the frontburner. 

7 hours ago, Vee said:

It's the same problem on every remaining soap but especially Y&R and GH. The veterans are not moved out of first position, ever, so you have a traffic jam of squandered generations below them getting older on the vine, and more pointless kids and babies all the time.

That's not to say many of these veterans can't still have active and vital story - the age groups of 40-60 are not what they used to be in the '80s or '70s. But there's no attempt to really invest in much of the future generations at Y&R especially. With GH you have a mostly solid recent youth set getting story but too many kids below them, and too many of the wrong played-out people across a wide age range in the frontburner. 

Definitely. GH feels extreme with so many offscreen kids in Port Charles. There’s no need to have a gazillion baby stories, but they are easy to get approved, as writers have shared. Yet now we have all of these randy, rough-and-ready AARP cardholders mingling in bars away from their young kids, who are being raised by offscreen nannies, I’m assuming, or offscreen older relatives. (Or to bring it back to Y&R, sent away to boarding school like Johnny and Katie.) They expect we’ll be so caught up in their “scintillating” stories of the moment that we won’t remember these people have LARGE families they barely see, not even at holidays. 

For Y&R, it feels like budget mode has made them hone in on “comfort food” and “what works,” which apparently is familiar faces locked in a state of perpetual adolescence. Their attempts at featuring the kids have been fully half-assed. Seriously, what on earth did they have planned for Moses? Was it surprising that he disappeared after that “exciting” non-story he had? Charlie and Mattie? Reed? Fen? Ana? Allie? What even was that characterization of Noah? Creeping on a lesbian and skulking around town in a leather jacket (when Rory Gibson has a body like this he loves to show off)? That’s how you introduce a potential leading man? They weren’t even trying.

Even Faith, a character we have known for years on the show, has just experienced significant trauma. Yet the show has not explored the aftermath and emotional impact on Faith. This seems like a missed opportunity, especially since Sharon also has a complex history of trauma and probably feels a lot of guilt. Sharon helping Faith deal with the aftermath could have been an engaging story arc about intergenerational trauma. However, instead of developing this story, the show sent Faith away and we’re back to another boring business story with Sharon inheriting Cameron Kirsten’s company.

Edited August 18, 20232 yr by Faulkner

2 hours ago, Faulkner said:

For Y&R, it feels like budget mode has made them hone in on “comfort food” and “what works,” which apparently is familiar faces locked in a state of perpetual adolescence.

I think both shows (and all of the shows really, even DAYS to an extent - B&B has not really changed in decades IMO) have that same fundamental terror at this point. They fear any true risks would alienate their last sliver of audience vs. trying to grow it again. But Y&R's problem is somewhat more profound to me because as you say they do bring on the new generation - but unlike GH, they just never materially use any of it. GH is caught between two poles but Y&R is in total paralysis to me.

Edited August 18, 20232 yr by Vee

15 hours ago, 1974mdp said:

Having a teen version of one of Victoria's kids, maybe Katie, on the show at this point would really help flesh the character out. Katie could disapprove of the relationship with Nate throwing another obstacle along Nate's path.

Katie should be a hot mess like Victoria was at her age when in Heather Tom was in the role. 

 

I also think that Johnny and Connor should be aged up to 15 at this point. And throw in Lucy and you can have the next generation. But will this show in budget mode and in creativity crisis allow it? 

8 hours ago, Vee said:

I think both shows (and all of the shows really, even DAYS to an extent - B&B has not really changed in decades IMO) have that same fundamental terror at this point. They fear any true risks would alienate their last sliver of audience vs. trying to grow it again. But Y&R's problem is somewhat more profound to me because as you say they do bring on the new generation - but unlike GH, they just never materially use any of it. GH is caught between two poles but Y&R is in total paralysis to me.

I think they’ve largely and realistically given up on a youth audience. Which ok, fine. And the loyal older audience will freak out when they go too long without seeing Victor or the people they know. But these shows feel so STUCK. GH at least has had a vibrancy and a consistency (and the budget management) to allow new faces to break through and eventually those longtime viewers warm up to the younger characters. (Granted, if you go up a few years in age beyond the Spencer/Trina/Cam/Joss crew, a lot of those newer characters have been flops.) But the commitment is there, even if there is ambivalence. Y&R hasn’t taken the same care in the past 15-20 years.

Why isn’t Faith featured as much as Joss is on GH by now? A legacy kid, a NEWMAN. AAL’s departure and RC’s addition gave them an opportunity to play out more adult stories for Faith. But nope. She’s gotten two “little girl in distress” stories. Even the Cameron Kirsten hostage situation felt tame, especially when we know what Cameron is capable of. (Those flashbacks were HARROWING.) It would take patience and a commitment to build a scene that Faith could thrive in, but all attempts have been so clunky, halfhearted, and quickly dropped instead of fixed. The show would rather dig into its greatest hits.

 

 

Edited August 18, 20232 yr by Faulkner

Agree wholeheartedly about the teen and 20-something groups that are just about non-existent. 

TSJ’s body looks great. He’s obviously committed himself to fitness while on the show because he didn’t look as ripped in his earlier shirtless scenes.

2 hours ago, Faulkner said:

TSJ’s body looks great. He’s obviously committed himself to fitness while on the show because he didn’t look as ripped in his earlier shirtless scenes.

I know, right? I was impressed, too!

I really do like the chemistry between him and ED.

On 8/18/2023 at 8:42 AM, Faulkner said:

I think they’ve largely and realistically given up on a youth audience. Which ok, fine. And the loyal older audience will freak out when they go too long without seeing Victor or the people they know. But these shows feel so STUCK.

Yeah, I did the math on Toups' ratings thread, and 88% of Y&R's viewers last week were over 50 years old!

I mean, it explains a lot when you have a middle-aged headwriter (best guess from an internet search) trying to entertain a group of 18-49 women in order to maintain ad dollars.

As a middle-aged guy myself, nothing feels more alienating than the realization that even though I am part of the majority of the audience, culture is not geared toward my taste because sponsors don't care what I watch.

Edited August 21, 20232 yr by j swift

Noticing that Eileen/Ashley is pretty much back full time.

In 2021 she made 25 appearances and in 2022 38. So far this year,as of July she has 58.

So Eileen has agreed to pretty much return as a regular, but not on contract.

I wonder why the change of heart ? Guess she felt like she was ready for more work and Josh had a story she liked?

 

 

11 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Noticing that Eileen/Ashley is pretty much back full time.

In 2021 she made 25 appearances and in 2022 38. So far this year,as of July she has 58.

So Eileen has agreed to pretty much return as a regular, but not on contract.

I wonder why the change of heart ? Guess she felt like she was ready for more work and Josh had a story she liked?

 

 

I've been wondering how they're budgeting for Miss Eileen.  Her appearance fee per episode is likely fairly high.  

I'm not complaining; I'm always happy when she's on.

But the show looks so desolate & poverty-stricken in every other respect, as though they can barely afford to pay their electric bill.