4 hours ago, Cruising Soaps said:

for better or worse?  I know I am watching with less fast forwarding.

5 hours ago, Vee said:

As we've said before: Everything happening with this show lately is real strange in terms of a series of major shifts.

Pretty much. I know I mentioned in the spoiler thread it’s interesting that pretty much all of what was Y&R’s storylines came to a screeching halt the moment Diane was revealed alive, and since then it’s only been that story and the Ashland reveal since then. And now we have Rey’s sudden abrupt death out of the blue.

I’m wondering who’s calling the shots at the moment lol. Remember when JFP was  fired over her Chancellor mansion redesign after some senior CBS executive was repulsed by what they saw and then intervened? Give the heavy near universal criticism Y&R was getting back in the winter all over the place I have to wonder if the same executive said enough is enough and intervened again lol. 

Is that what happened?? LOL I need to go back and look at that set.

4-15

 

Well played, writers.

 

You know viewers are digging into Diane's return more than anything. So they are spacing that the heck out. Good because that will make people want to tune in waiting for her to appear. However, you better have something else going on to hold a person's image. IMHO this past week's Mariah/Tessa montage ain't it. 

 

Thankfully...outside of Adam's whining...the Ashland story has gotten somewhat more interesting.

 

But that could be because everything I see him, I swooooooooned.

 

Oh, Joshua. lol.

 

Robert Newman turned up the heat this week. And I could see while Victoria flinched as his intensity came to the fray. And that just means RN is doing a great job. I could almost forget that he's been lying to her. Almost.

 

But getting back to Diane...lol...I loved that Jack sat them down and told them. And I LIVE for all of Ashley's reactions. But I think it is known how much I love Eileen Davidson. And I liked before Jack told them the truth, Jack compared Allie to her. I know it had been mentioned on the threads possible story ideas for Allie and a possible mentonship between Ashley and Allie would be nice.

 

Diane pulling her low key Alexis Carrington entrance was a hoot.

But...nothing much to hold my interest though I liked that I was actually interested in the Ashland story now. 

 

Oh...and good to see Sharon. And I loved her calling Ashland out. But that reminds me of something that I liked this week. Someone was focused on continunity by bringing up Sharon's cancer, the lawsuit of Victor vs his kids where he LOST, there was a third thing that caught my interest, but it has slip my mind. But good to see someone paid attention this week. at least.

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Vee said:

Is that what happened?? LOL I need to go back and look at that set.

Yup, lol.  As one writer put it at the time, "but when JFP changed the Chancellor mansion, she had to go."

1 hour ago, Vee said:

Is that what happened?? LOL I need to go back and look at that set.

 

12 minutes ago, Khan said:

Yup, lol.  As one writer put it at the time, "but when JFP changed the Chancellor mansion, she had to go."

It was an ugly blue set and they took down Katherine’s portrait as Billy was living in the house around the same time he started his affair with Phyllis.

Said anonymous senior very high up CBS executive was disgusted by the appearance and was very pissed off by no portrait of Mrs. Chancellor so much so he/she decided to take drastic action into their own hands…

Hence why in one of Mal Young’s very first episodes he was credited as co-EP we had a scene with Jill barging in on Billy with a can of yellow paint, telling Billy off for letting the mansion go, and the episode concluding with Jill having a flashback of watching Katherine walk up the stairs one last time. 

9 hours ago, Faulkner said:

Maybe they are waiting for a twist (JG loves to “surprise” us with a “twist”) to show that perhaps Rey didn’t die due to the crash. Maybe he was still alive but Ashland really killed him?

I think so.  I think we're gonna find out down the road (ha!) that Ashland intended to kill Victoria - he, and not Rey, was driving the oncoming vehicle that caused Victoria to crash - but that his plans were spoiled - first, when Victoria managed to survive the crash with only minor injuries; and second, when Rey happened upon the scene, figured out (somehow) what Ashland had been up to and tried to detain him, only for Ashland to kill him to prevent him from exposing his crime.

The next part isn't really spoilers, but in case fanfic ain't your bag:

Now, if *I* were writing the next chapter in this tale, I would have Chance, as Rey's colleague at the police department, slowly begin to have doubts about the circumstances surrounding Rey's death, and about Ashland's version of events in particular.  At the same time, I would have Ashland win over Victoria and even Nikki again, as he plays the loving, caring spouse, standing by his wife, as she copes with feeling responsible for the role she THINKS she played in Rey's untimely death.  This would create a rift within the Newman clan, with Nikki and Victoria sticking up for Ashland; Adam, Nick and Victor siding with Chance; and Abby torn between her loyalty to her husband and that of her family.

Ashland would go to great lengths to discredit Chance, suggesting that his well-documented PTSD was affecting his ability to protect the citizens of GC, and threatening a hefty lawsuit against the GCPD if Chance chose to pursue "these vicious accusations" against him any further.  Paul, in his first appearance in God-knows-when, gives Chance an ultimatum: either drop the vendetta against Ashland and move on from his investigation into Rey's death, or face an official reprimand and possible termination from the force.  Chance feels he has no choice but to resign - but, he promises, he's not through with Ashland yet.  He KNOWS Ashland was responsible for Rey's death, and he's determined to prove it.

Of course, thanks to seeds of doubt that Ashland has planted within her mind, Abby worries that Chance's single-mindedness is pushing him once again to the brink emotionally and begs him to drop the investigation, arguing that doing so would help heal the tensions within her family.  (Ashland has also set his sights on Abby, believing she would be much more compatible with him (Ashland) than Victoria was).  Abby's request, and Chance's anger over it, places their union in serious jeopardy.  (It also lays some groundwork for my much-vaunted Chance/Allie relationship, as the two meet by chance (ha!) one afternoon at Crimson Lights and form a casual friendship while bonding over their respective problems - Chance, with his marriage and his in-laws; and Allie, with her newly found relatives, the Abbotts.)

Meanwhile, Nick has become very concerned about Sharon, who appears to be spiralling out of control in the wake of Rey's death.  Suspecting she has stopped taking her bipolar medication, Nick urges Sharon to seek medical attention, but Sharon refuses.  What's the point, she says, when her life is always a mess no matter how hard she tries to keep it together?  Unfortunately, her decision to go off her meds will lead her into a very sticky situation with Paul, of all people.  As Rey's boss, Paul believes it is his duty to remain in contact with his widow in this very difficult time for her.  However, as Paul and Sharon spend more and more time together, and Paul gradually opens up about the (offscreen) problems he's been having in his marriage to Christine, his vulnerability and her instability lead them into an affair. 

And who do you think accidentally stumbles upon Paul and Sharon in the most compromising of positions?  No, not Christine.  Ashland.  And when it appears that Paul might be able to get Chance reinstated (after Allie convinces Chance to let go of his investigation in order to keep the Newmans from being torn apart any further), Ashland uses proof of Paul and Sharon's hookups as blackmail, promising to expose Paul's infidelity if he allows Chance's reinstatement to go through.

Eventually, Chance's investigation leads him to the fateful crash that killed the real Ashland Locke and spurred Ashland, then Robert DeFranco, to assume his best friend's identity.  Chance learns that that accident was no accident: Robert killed the real Ashland, much like he attempted to kill Victoria, then stole his identity and took the job that set him on the path toward becoming the media mogul of today.  At the same time, Ashland, realizing that the metaphorical walls are about to close in on him, sets in motion a plan to have Victoria, who has been a total wreck since Rey's death, overdose on sleeping pills and stage it as a suicide before leaving GC for good with his newest obsession, Abby.  When Abby realizes that Ashland, who has behaved like a friend toward her this entire time, is, in fact, obsessed with her, and that her husband has been right all along about him, she tries to get away from Ashland to alert the police.  However, Ashland, realizing he'll never have Abby either, strangles her and leaves her to die in her and Chance's living room.

Chance and Ashland's climactic confrontation occurs just as Victoria is about to lose consciousness from the overdose of pills that Ashland has administered.  Chance and Ashland fight; Chance pushes Ashland out of Victoria's bedroom window; Ashland falls to his death on the ground below.

From there:

- Chance realizes the price he has paid for his pursuit of Ashland when he is left to mourn Abby's death.  Chance's parents, Nina (played once more by Tricia Cast) and Phillip (played by a new actor), return to help their son cope with his loss.  Nina's visit will be brief, but - much to Jill's delight - Phillip will decide to stay in GC and become involved in a new relationship - his first since Justin, his husband, who died recently of leukemia at their home in Australia - with Chance's new, gay therapist. 

Unfortunately, Devon chooses that time to try again to win custody of Dominic, even as Mariah, Tessa and even Amanda urge him to allow Dominic to remain with Chance, the only father he's known, and the only link he has now to Abby.  Ultimately, Chance decides that it would be in Dominic's best interest to spare the child that he has raised as his own from another, bitter custody feud and allow him to live with his biological father.  (Devon is glad to have Dominic in his home where he feels he belongs, but it comes at a cost: Amanda says she is sickened that he would take advantage of Chance's pain and walks out of their relationship, leaving GC to take a new job in Atlanta.)

Chance also decides he doesn't have the stomach anymore for investigative work and opts not to return to the police department.  Looking for a new and different direction in life, Chance eventually becomes Allie's business partner in a line of cosmetics targeting the AAPI demographic that she's developing outside of Jabot - her opportunity to prove herself to her family.  As they work closely on the new line, however, their friendship turns into something more.

- Victoria, traumatized by her whole ordeal with Ashland, buries herself in her work at Newman.  Family and friends alike grow concerned as Victoria spends more and more time at the office.  They're afraid she's trying too hard to move past what happened with Ashland too quickly and she's headed for a breakdown.  Victoria insists that she's fine.  However, the stress does begin to affect her well-being.  She begins having hallucinations of Ashland, seeing him everywhere, stalking and taunting her.  When she gets involved in another car accident that's eerily similar to the one with Ashland and Rey, Victoria snaps completely.  She flees the car, leaving behind her purse and everything else that ties into her identity.  Suffering from a dissociative fugue, Victoria, under an assumed identity, turns up in the small town in Indiana, where she meets the local doctor, a handsome widower who's raising a young daughter with the help of his dad (also a widower, also a doctor).  She'll also meet the doctor's fun-loving, younger brother, who takes an immediate shine to this new girl in town, but who is clearly more suited for the older, more responsible brother.   

- Ashley has another mental breakdown as well in the wake of Abby's death.  Jack and Traci look on with increasing concern as Ashley begins carrying around and referring to a doll of Abby's from her childhood as her "baby."  Eventually, Ashley physically lashes out at Allie after accusing her of moving in on her daughter's husband.  Everyone thinks she's being absurd, but as Allie admits to Jack, she feels extremely guilty because IS developing real feelings for Chance.  Nevertheless, when Ashley regresses to an almost catatonic state after the attack, the rest of the Abbotts feel they have no choice but to commit her to an institution.  (Don't worry, sports fans, I wouldn't leave her in there forever.)

- When Paul realizes that his affair with Sharon has caused him to behave unethically on his job, he confesses all to Christine.  Paul expects Christine to be outraged upon hearing the news.  Instead, Christine appears to be calmly indifferent about the whole, upsetting matter.  Her unexpected reaction to Paul's admission helps her realize that her and Paul's marriage is truly over.  Nina and Paul encourage Christine to accompany her back to Los Angeles in the hopes that time and distance will convince her to give her marriage another try.  Several weeks later, however, Paul is devastated to receive divorce papers.

- Sharon decides to get back on her meds JUST in time to learn she is pregnant with Paul's baby.  Sharon is beside herself over what to do about becoming a mother again.  Should she have an abortion?  Should she inform Paul about his impending fatherhood?  Should she leave town with the baby and start over?  Then, a twist: Adam learns about the baby.  Sharon admits that Paul is the father.  Sensing the dilemma that she's in, Adam offers a solution (of sorts): allow him to assume the role of biological father.  At first, Sharon is reluctant to go along with Adam's plan; however, Adam convinces her that his would be the best way out of an impossible situation.  Adam and Sharon inform everyone that "they" are expecting a child which they will co-parent, with the explanation that the two had a tryst while she was still off her meds.  Of course, this will throw a monkey wrench into Adam and Sally's relationship; Nick will be suspicious of their claims almost from the start; and once he's served with divorce papers, Paul will be desperate to resume his sexual relationship with Sharon, as he sees it as the only good thing he's got going in his life once it's discovered how Ashland had blackmailed him into keeping Chance off the force and Paul has to quit his job as a result.

12 hours ago, Faulkner said:

They actually directed/shot that Sharon/Nick scene reasonably well, even if it was overlit in the modern-day Y&R style.

They should have just ended the scene with Sharon saying “I already know,” then her breaking down, instead of cutting to Victoria/Ashland/Victor/Nikki in the cabin and cutting back to Nick breaking down the gory details of Rey’s death to Sharon. Would have been more impactful.

 

7 hours ago, janea4old said:

Of course, I believe I would have written and shot differently, lol.

I would have had Nick show up outside of Crimson Lights, looking through the window behind the counter at Sharon, who's busy cleaning up for the night.  I would have STAYED outside CL - meaning, we'd watch the scene unfold through the window - as Nick enters.  The music that's playing underneath the scene fades and we hear outside noises (cars driving by, the wind, whatever) as Nick gets Sharon's attention and begins to tell her the news.  We don't hear anything that either Nick or Sharon say, but we can tell by Sharon's reactions that Nick has told her about the crash.  Sharon breaks down and Nick puts his arms around her as we slowly fade to black.

1 hour ago, Khan said:

I think so.  I think we're gonna find out down the road (ha!) that Ashland intended to kill Victoria - he, and not Rey, was driving the oncoming vehicle that caused Victoria to crash - but that his plans were spoiled - first, when Victoria managed to survive the crash with only minor injuries; and second, when Rey happened upon the scene, figured out (somehow) what Ashland had been up to and tried to detain him, only for Ashland to kill him to prevent him from exposing his crime.

The next part isn't really spoilers, but in case fanfic ain't your bag:

 

  Hide contents

Now, if *I* were writing the next chapter in this tale, I would have Chance, as Rey's colleague at the police department, slowly begin to have doubts about the circumstances surrounding Rey's death, and about Ashland's version of events in particular.  At the same time, I would have Ashland win over Victoria and even Nikki again, as he plays the loving, caring spouse, standing by his wife, as she copes with feeling responsible for the role she THINKS she played in Rey's untimely death.  This would create a rift within the Newman clan, with Nikki and Victoria sticking up for Ashland; Adam, Nick and Victor siding with Chance; and Abby torn between her loyalty to her husband and that of her family.

Ashland would go to great lengths to discredit Chance, suggesting that his well-documented PTSD was affecting his ability to protect the citizens of GC, and threatening a hefty lawsuit against the GCPD if Chance chose to pursue "these vicious accusations" against him any further.  Paul, in his first appearance in God-knows-when, gives Chance an ultimatum: either drop the vendetta against Ashland and move on from his investigation into Rey's death, or face an official reprimand and possible termination from the force.  Chance feels he has no choice but to resign - but, he promises, he's not through with Ashland yet.  He KNOWS Ashland was responsible for Rey's death, and he's determined to prove it.

Of course, thanks to seeds of doubt that Ashland has planted within her mind, Abby worries that Chance's single-mindedness is pushing him once again to the brink emotionally and begs him to drop the investigation, arguing that doing so would help heal the tensions within her family.  (Ashland has also set his sights on Abby, believing she would be much more compatible with him (Ashland) than Victoria was).  Abby's request, and Chance's anger over it, places their union in serious jeopardy.  (It also lays some groundwork for my much-vaunted Chance/Allie relationship, as the two meet by chance (ha!) one afternoon at Crimson Lights and form a casual friendship while bonding over their respective problems - Chance, with his marriage and his in-laws; and Allie, with her newly found relatives, the Abbotts.)

Meanwhile, Nick has become very concerned about Sharon, who appears to be spiralling out of control in the wake of Rey's death.  Suspecting she has stopped taking her bipolar medication, Nick urges Sharon to seek medical attention, but Sharon refuses.  What's the point, she says, when her life is always a mess no matter how hard she tries to keep it together?  Unfortunately, her decision to go off her meds will lead her into a very sticky situation with Paul, of all people.  As Rey's boss, Paul believes it is his duty to remain in contact with his widow in this very difficult time for her.  However, as Paul and Sharon spend more and more time together, and Paul gradually opens up about the (offscreen) problems he's been having in his marriage to Christine, his vulnerability and her instability lead them into an affair. 

And who do you think accidentally stumbles upon Paul and Sharon in the most compromising of positions?  No, not Christine.  Ashland.  And when it appears that Paul might be able to get Chance reinstated (after Allie convinces Chance to let go of his investigation in order to keep the Newmans from being torn apart any further), Ashland uses proof of Paul and Sharon's hookups as blackmail, promising to expose Paul's infidelity if he allows Chance's reinstatement to go through.

Eventually, Chance's investigation leads him to the fateful crash that killed the real Ashland Locke and spurred Ashland, then Robert DeFranco, to assume his best friend's identity.  Chance learns that that accident was no accident: Robert killed the real Ashland, much like he attempted to kill Victoria, then stole his identity and took the job that set him on the path toward becoming the media mogul of today.  At the same time, Ashland, realizing that the metaphorical walls are about to close in on him, sets in motion a plan to have Victoria, who has been a total wreck since Rey's death, overdose on sleeping pills and stage it as a suicide before leaving GC for good with his newest obsession, Abby.  When Abby realizes that Ashland, who has behaved like a friend toward her this entire time, is, in fact, obsessed with her, and that her husband has been right all along about him, she tries to get away from Ashland to alert the police.  However, Ashland, realizing he'll never have Abby either, strangles her and leaves her to die in her and Chance's living room.

Chance and Ashland's climactic confrontation occurs just as Victoria is about to lose consciousness from the overdose of pills that Ashland has administered.  Chance and Ashland fight; Chance pushes Ashland out of Victoria's bedroom window; Ashland falls to his death on the ground below.

From there:

- Chance realizes the price he has paid for his pursuit of Ashland when he is left to mourn Abby's death.  Chance's parents, Nina (played once more by Tricia Cast) and Phillip (played by a new actor), return to help their son cope with his loss.  Nina's visit will be brief, but - much to Jill's delight - Phillip will decide to stay in GC and become involved in a new relationship - his first since Justin, his husband, who died recently of leukemia at their home in Australia - with Chance's new, gay therapist. 

Unfortunately, Devon chooses that time to try again to win custody of Dominic, even as Mariah, Tessa and even Amanda urge him to allow Dominic to remain with Chance, the only father he's known, and the only link he has now to Abby.  Ultimately, Chance decides that it would be in Dominic's best interest to spare the child that he has raised as his own from another, bitter custody feud and allow him to live with his biological father.  (Devon is glad to have Dominic in his home where he feels he belongs, but it comes at a cost: Amanda says she is sickened that he would take advantage of Chance's pain and walks out of their relationship, leaving GC to take a new job in Atlanta.)

Chance also decides he doesn't have the stomach anymore for investigative work and opts not to return to the police department.  Looking for a new and different direction in life, Chance eventually becomes Allie's business partner in a line of cosmetics targeting the AAPI demographic that she's developing outside of Jabot - her opportunity to prove herself to her family.  As they work closely on the new line, however, their friendship turns into something more.

- Victoria, traumatized by her whole ordeal with Ashland, buries herself in her work at Newman.  Family and friends alike grow concerned as Victoria spends more and more time at the office.  They're afraid she's trying too hard to move past what happened with Ashland too quickly and she's headed for a breakdown.  Victoria insists that she's fine.  However, the stress does begin to affect her well-being.  She begins having hallucinations of Ashland, seeing him everywhere, stalking and taunting her.  When she gets involved in another car accident that's eerily similar to the one with Ashland and Rey, Victoria snaps completely.  She flees the car, leaving behind her purse and everything else that ties into her identity.  Suffering from a dissociative fugue, Victoria, under an assumed identity, turns up in the small town in Indiana, where she meets the local doctor, a handsome widower who's raising a young daughter with the help of his dad (also a widower, also a doctor).  She'll also meet the doctor's fun-loving, younger brother, who takes an immediate shine to this new girl in town, but who is clearly more suited for the older, more responsible brother.   

- Ashley has another mental breakdown as well in the wake of Abby's death.  Jack and Traci look on with increasing concern as Ashley begins carrying around and referring to a doll of Abby's from her childhood as her "baby."  Eventually, Ashley physically lashes out at Allie after accusing her of moving in on her daughter's husband.  Everyone thinks she's being absurd, but as Allie admits to Jack, she feels extremely guilty because IS developing real feelings for Chance.  Nevertheless, when Ashley regresses to an almost catatonic state after the attack, the rest of the Abbotts feel they have no choice but to commit her to an institution.  (Don't worry, sports fans, I wouldn't leave her in there forever.)

- When Paul realizes that his affair with Sharon has caused him to behave unethically on his job, he confesses all to Christine.  Paul expects Christine to be outraged upon hearing the news.  Instead, Christine appears to be calmly indifferent about the whole, upsetting matter.  Her unexpected reaction to Paul's admission helps her realize that her and Paul's marriage is truly over.  Nina and Paul encourage Christine to accompany her back to Los Angeles in the hopes that time and distance will convince her to give her marriage another try.  Several weeks later, however, Paul is devastated to receive divorce papers.

- Sharon decides to get back on her meds JUST in time to learn she is pregnant with Paul's baby.  Sharon is beside herself over what to do about becoming a mother again.  Should she have an abortion?  Should she inform Paul about his impending fatherhood?  Should she leave town with the baby and start over?  Then, a twist: Adam learns about the baby.  Sharon admits that Paul is the father.  Sensing the dilemma that she's in, Adam offers a solution (of sorts): allow him to assume the role of biological father.  At first, Sharon is reluctant to go along with Adam's plan; however, Adam convinces her that his would be the best way out of an impossible situation.  Adam and Sharon inform everyone that "they" are expecting a child which they will co-parent, with the explanation that the two had a tryst while she was still off her meds.  Of course, this will throw a monkey wrench into Adam and Sally's relationship; Nick will be suspicious of their claims almost from the start; and once he's served with divorce papers, Paul will be desperate to resume his sexual relationship with Sharon, as he sees it as the only good thing he's got going in his life once it's discovered how Ashland had blackmailed him into keeping Chance off the force and Paul has to quit his job as a result.

Sharon has an affair with Paul and gets knocked up? No thanks 😂 

Khan- yes to Chance and Allie, but killing off Abby and sending Ashley crazy again? That's a no from me.

Paul/Sharon and another baby? Sorry no. I would accept Paul and Lauren hooking up.

Victoria off in her own story with 3 new characters-not happening with today's budget.

A recast Phillip -  OK.

Sharon Case's face physically pains me, I'm sorry. It's really taking me out of that scene.

2 minutes ago, Darn said:

Sharon Case's face physically pains me, I'm sorry. It's really taking me out of that scene.

Sadly, I'd have to agree.  It's like she's suffering an allergic reaction to some medication.

13 hours ago, soapfan770 said:

 

It was an ugly blue set and they took down Katherine’s portrait as Billy was living in the house around the same time he started his affair with Phyllis.

Said anonymous senior very high up CBS executive was disgusted by the appearance and was very pissed off by no portrait of Mrs. Chancellor so much so he/she decided to take drastic action into their own hands…

Hence why in one of Mal Young’s very first episodes he was credited as co-EP we had a scene with Jill barging in on Billy with a can of yellow paint, telling Billy off for letting the mansion go, and the episode concluding with Jill having a flashback of watching Katherine walk up the stairs one last time. 

The current “Chancellor estate” is still ugly to me, even if they brought back the wall decor by the stairs…I’d happily take back the downsized version of the estate we got the end of MABs/beginning of JFPs tenures….

9 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Paul/Sharon and another baby? Sorry no.

TBH...?  I'm not crazy for my ideas for Paul and Sharon either.

Now, you're not gonna change my mind about Abby and Ashley, no matter what.  I still think Abby's an extraneous character who can't salvaged, no matter how many times you recast her, how many stupid relationships you stick her in, or how long you keep her off the canvas with the hope that you can bring her back if/when you think you know what to do with her.  Abby has to go, it has to be permanent, and if it IS permanent, then, given Ashley's history, I think a(nother) mental breakdown followed by a stint at a sanitarium is the only logical fate for a woman (Ashley) forced to accept the untimely death of yet another child of hers.

But, the Paul/Sharon thing...?  Yeah, that's the kind of [!@#$%^&*] I'd scrap as soon as it hit the air.  Which would be a very Bill Bell thing to do, I guess, lol.

ETA: But I WILL say that I had it in mind for Sharon to give birth to a son, Caleb, who would have Downs Syndrome.

Edited April 22, 20223 yr by Khan

16 minutes ago, Khan said:

Now, you're not gonna change my mind about Abby and Ashley, no matter what.  I still think Abby's an extraneous character who can't salvaged, no matter how many times you recast her, how many stupid relationships you stick her in, or how long you keep her off the canvas.  She has to go, it has to be permanent, and if it IS permanent, then, given Ashley's history, I think a(nother) mental breakdown followed by a stint at a sanitarium is the only logical fate for a woman (Ashley) forced to accept the untimely death of yet another child of hers.

Not trying to convince you or annoy you, but just curious why you think she has to be killed off permanently. The ridiculous story of her conception? I know a lot of people feel she simply shouldn’t exist, period, which I understand. That SpermPig story was disgraceful and pretty much destroyed Ashley. That said, and this is just me: I generally feel that unless a character has done something irredeemable, like killing a beloved character in cold blood, they can be salvaged with time off the canvas. The major problem with Abby is that the crap writers who’ve shepherded this show since her arrival as an adult have had zero idea of what to do with her. She was initially a Paris Hilton-esque joke, then became the all-purpose pretty white heroine they wanted for that age group. And the poor casting has done the character no favors. But I think just having her leave the canvas and rarely mentioned wouldn’t be some albatross on the show. In the unlikely event that some competent writers take over after Y&R moves to streaming or something, I’d love to still have that legacy character on the table, perhaps reinvented down the line due to some offscreen events in her life, especially when we’re already contending with a depleted generation of Abbotts.