1 hour ago, carolineg said:

Whether or not Carly or Sonny are making valid points it's the same sh*t different day for them and has been for several years.  It's once again about Sonny and another women, being off his meds, and at the end of the story he'll realize Carly is the one true love of his life.  Although the premise with Mike/Nina is slightly different its almost the same back and forth crap they have done since the beginning of time.  I am not saying other couples on all soaps don't do this, but there is something about Carly/Sonny that has been stale for years.  The jason/Nina stuff could of went somewhere, but it went back to the most predictable place possible for them.

Has any couple on daytime been AS frontburner as Sonny and Carly? It's been 25 years of them constantly in A stories. If you told someone the name of the show was Corinthos they'd believe you. Couples far more popular than the two of them have gotten a break or been written off but not these two. They're just onscreen, 5 days a week, no matter how little story there is to tell with them.

1 hour ago, carolineg said:

The Carly/Nina feud could be decent, but haven't we already seen Carly lose her mind over Sam, Brenda, Kate, Emily, Reese, Hannah, etc. etc.  Carly vaguely handily maturely is something different.

Agree.  After everything that Sonny and Carly have been through, whether together or apart, we need to see some evolution from the two, instead of the same-old, same-old. 

If anything, when Carly first learned about Sonny and Nina, her reaction should have been almost muted, for lack of a better word.  Because, my God, Carly, we've ALL been down this road before with you and Sonny on countless occasions; and how many MORE occasions must we go down it before we finally get it through our thick-ass skulls!?

Then, Carly could have arrived at the conclusion (either on her own, or with help from someone like Bobbie) that if she didn't react as badly toward the knowledge about Sonny and Nina as she thought she would, or as she would have at any other time in their long, tumultuous relationship, then maybe she and Sonny are really and truly over. 

Because, you know, that's life.  Sometimes, no matter how hard you try to make a relationship work, it just doesn't work.

10 minutes ago, Darn said:

Has any couple on daytime been AS frontburner as Sonny and Carly? It's been 25 years of them constantly in A stories. If you told someone the name of the show was Corinthos they'd believe you. Couples far more popular than the two of them have gotten a break or been written off but not these two. They're just onscreen, 5 days a week, no matter how little story there is to tell with them.

Probably not.  There were couples/characters that had their eras (ie John/Marlena on Days in the 90's), but no one as long as Carson.  I don't even think Sonny/Brenda/Jax at their peak heyday had as much airtime as them.  I honestly feel for about a decade Sonny/Carly haven't had much story.  The problem is their draw was 2 damaged characters in a toxic relationship but now we are supposed to believe they are the ultimate lovestory.   Both characters should have changed and 'grown' out of this, but just didn't.   It feels like both Sonny and Carly reached their peaks as a couple and we are watching them to watch them.

 

1 minute ago, Khan said:

Agree.  After everything that Sonny and Carly have been through, whether together or apart, we need to see some evolution from the two, instead of the same-old, same-old. 

If anything, when Carly first learned about Sonny and Nina, her reaction should have been almost muted, for lack of a better word.  Because, my God, Carly, we've ALL been down this road before with you and Sonny on countless occasions; and how many MORE occasions must we go down it before we finally get it through our thick-ass skulls!?

Then, Carly could have arrived at the conclusion (either on her own, or with help from someone like Bobbie) that if she didn't react as badly toward the knowledge about Sonny and Nina as she thought she would, or as she would have at any other time in their long, tumultuous relationship, then maybe she and Sonny are really and truly over. 

Because, you know, that's life.  Sometimes, no matter how hard you try to make a relationship work, it just doesn't work.

Yes!  This relationship stopped working in about 2005 at the latest.  I don't know if I can convey this right, but there is no real smoldering jealousy or chemistry.  When Carly/Sonny get jealous it feels like they are more jealous they aren't getting the most attention-not that they are romantically longing for that person if that makes sense.   I know both actors are capable of playing that longing emotion, but they seem incapable of being able to do it with one another.  

13 minutes ago, carolineg said:

I don't know if I can convey this right, but there is no real smoldering jealousy or chemistry.  When Carly/Sonny get jealous it feels like they are more jealous they aren't getting the most attention-not that they are romantically longing for that person if that makes sense.

I think it makes TOTAL sense.  And I think the show needs to acknowledge it, too; either through Sonny and Carly themselves, or through others' reactions to their nonstop drama.  Instead, like you said, they insist on marketing it all as still one of the greatest love stories ever told, when it clearly isn't anymore.

Conversely, look at Phil and Jessie Brewer.  From everything that I have read over the years, even Jessie herself knew what an absolute pig Phil was.  Yet, even though she always acknowledged how better off she was without him, she also admitted that there was something that was nevertheless irresistible about him, too.  I wouldn't say Jessie was PROUD about that, but she was intelligent enough about Phil to know what she was always getting herself into.  And THAT is how you create great, nuanced, adult relationships.  

Edited January 25, 20223 yr by Khan

48 minutes ago, Darn said:

Has any couple on daytime been AS frontburner as Sonny and Carly? It's been 25 years of them constantly in A stories. If you told someone the name of the show was Corinthos they'd believe you. Couples far more popular than the two of them have gotten a break or been written off but not these two. They're just onscreen, 5 days a week, no matter how little story there is to tell with them.

What I really will never understand is the longer the show focused completely on Sonny/Carly/Jason, the ratings just continued to erode.  And they keep doing it.  
 

When the 50th anniversary started, and the story wealth started to be spread out more, and the show became more of an ensemble piece for a couple of years, the ratings went up.  The highest ratings surge the show has had in the last decade was not because of Sonny and Carly.  Their fans might be vocal, but how is that translating to actual viewers?

Luke was always in story too.  Always.  But his vacations gave us a break, and there was more variety.  Luke was in family stories, relationships, action, comedy, dark and light thematic topics were touched.  It feels like Sonny and Carly are telling the same story for most of those 25 years.  Jason even had more variety than they did!

 

At the mania height of Luke and Laura, the whole show was still good and full of interesting stories and characters.  Since the Frons era of ABC, the focus has been so dramatically on Sonny/Jason/Carly and they won’t shake free of it.

11 minutes ago, titan1978 said:

What I really will never understand is the longer the show focused completely on Sonny/Carly/Jason, the ratings just continued to erode.  And they keep doing it. 

When the 50th anniversary started, and the story wealth started to be spread out more, and the show became more of an ensemble piece for a couple of years, the ratings went up.  The highest ratings surge the show has had in the last decade was not because of Sonny and Carly.  Their fans might be vocal, but how is that translating to actual viewers?

That I will literally never understand. They keep forcing these characters on us when the ratings don't translate to them being THAT big of a draw. The same thing happened with AMC in the heydays of Kendall and Zach and Greenlee and Ryan. Their fans were extremely vocal but they didn't move the needle so I never understood it.

Back then, under Frons, I think it was a dedicated effort to program the shows and train the audiences to buy into the rebranded shows/couples as he saw them.

These days, however, I think Sonny/Carly, like most of GH, is only still in place because of institutional inertia and reluctance to take risks. They figure their audience is baked in, of advanced age and cannot be grown or revolutionized anymore than they believe the show can be; they never expected to survive this long, soaps are barely scratching by in the streaming age, so they simply cater to a shrinking audience they believe is predominantly elderly and/or conservative from sites like Facebook who they believe just want to see X/Y, and leave it at that. That plus Frank Valentini's personal obsessions with certain actors and demos. But beyond his desires I don't think anything matters at GH anymore other than not rocking the boat and keeping the lights on.

I am going to be boring and say that I am torn on the way C/S is written right now.

On one hand I do love that they are exploring an organic conflict within a couple with understandable real emotions and subtext on both sides and where no one is wrong or right. That's soap I love and there have been little moments that have been very interesting to me.
And actually it works for me that LW and MB don't have the same kind of passionate chemistry he had with previous Carlys. We are talking two older people who have loved each other in some way for twenty years. The love might be there but the heat isn't sizzling anymore and that makes some sense to me. I agree that keeping them together in a soap is more out of inertia than real planning but in real life, that muted affection would seem like a reasonable vibe for an older married couple.

On the other hand, I do agree that they have not done very well at giving those scenes some sense of progression - either towards resolution or bigger conflict. It is that stagnation that makes them feel repetitive.
And I am not super happy that the way they are going to make the story advance is manufactured conflict like Sonny not taking his meds anymore.

I believe there was good organic drama to squeeze out of this but just like we so cruelly learned during Sonny's botched post-Mike return, they just don't know how to write human emotions.
If it is not big and yelling and violence and plots and secrets and villains, they fumble.

 

1 hour ago, Khan said:

I think it makes TOTAL sense.  And I think the show needs to acknowledge it, too; either through Sonny and Carly themselves, or through others' reactions to their nonstop drama.  Instead, like you said, they insist on marketing it all as still one of the greatest love stories ever told, when it clearly isn't anymore.

Conversely, look at Phil and Jessie Brewer.  From everything that I have read over the years, even Jessie herself knew what an absolute pig Phil was.  Yet, even though she always acknowledged how better off she was without him, she also admitted that there was something that was nevertheless irresistible about him, too.  I wouldn't say Jessie was PROUD about that, but she was intelligent enough about Phil to know what she was always getting herself into.  And THAT is how you create great, nuanced, adult relationships.  

Yes, Carson never seems that complex intellectually despite their arguments and breakups, but it certainly doesn't seem like an amazing love story with great physical attraction either.   I have said many times Carson don't even bother me that much.  It's just seems to be a disservice to both characters.  I don't think either of them would just settle into this bland, sorta domestic bliss partners in life.   

I totally get everyone points about GH being afraid or just assume Carson are super popular, but are they?  This is a show that broke up Luke/Laura, Holly/Robert, Frisco/Felicia, Duke/Anna, Sonny/Brenda, Lucky/Liz and so on and so forth in fairly permanent fashions.  All much popular couples.  This show isn't Days-nearly every decent couple on this show gets broken up.

1 hour ago, Vee said:

Back then, under Frons, I think it was a dedicated effort to program the shows and train the audiences to buy into the rebranded shows/couples as he saw them.

These days, however, I think Sonny/Carly, like most of GH, is only still in place because of institutional inertia and reluctance to take risks. They figure their audience is baked in, of advanced age and cannot be grown or revolutionized anymore than they believe the show can be; they never expected to survive this long, soaps are barely scratching by in the streaming age, so they simply cater to a shrinking audience they believe is predominantly elderly and/or conservative from sites like Facebook who they believe just want to see X/Y, and leave it at that. That plus Frank Valentini's personal obsessions with certain actors and demos. But beyond his desires I don't think anything matters at GH anymore other than not rocking the boat and keeping the lights on.

Even Guza was working a transition in his last couple of years.  The center of the show moved almost fully to Jason and Sonny was being called out more and more. His new creation Dante was paired with Lulu and was really frontburner.  I think you have even mentioned before that Dante/Lucky were kind of the next generation and it was moving in that way.

It very much feels like keeping the lights on.  

I enjoyed today's show. I thought it was pretty good overall. I think that Spencer/Trina continue to have nice chemistry. They were flirting and are getting closer again. They looked like they wanted to kiss before Cam showed up and told Spencer to go back to work. Esme is still stirring the pot, by telling Cam that Trina wants him. It seems like Cam may be actually buying that though it should be obvious to him that Sprina are still into each other. Esme can definitely see that. I wonder what Esme is going to do with the pills and the phone.

Also, I liked Britt/Austin's scenes. I think they seem comfortable around each other. And I thought Sonny/Drew/Curtis/Marshall/Nina was interesting as well. Marshall looked like he wanted to knock out Sonny when Sonny was trying to order Curtis around. Sonny also said hurtful, insulting things to Drew. I could see that being a set up for more conflict, should Drew continue to get closer to Carly. I also still wonder if Marshall may have been in the mob. And I liked Harmony/Alexis as well. 

Edited January 25, 20223 yr by xtr

Just got finished watching a weeks worth of OLTL from 1980. It had more drama then one years worth of GH... smh

I love the way Spencer just lights up whenever he sees Trina. Nick Chavez’s acting is good all around, but he seems so different in his scenes with Nikolas or Laura. Do you think he does that intentionally?

And poor Drew lol I hope he sleeps with Carly

Edited January 25, 20223 yr by AbcNbc247

1 hour ago, Marco Dane said:

Just got finished watching a weeks worth of OLTL from 1980. It had more drama then one years worth of GH... smh

In the early months of the pandemic.  I binged watched Writers Strike/1988 era GH. And enjoyed it more than present day GH.

44 minutes ago, AbcNbc247 said:

I love the way Spencer just lights up whenever he sees Trina. Nick Chavez’s acting is good all around, but he seems so different in his scenes with Nikolas or Laura. Do you think he does that intentionally?

And poor Drew lol I hope he sleeps with Carly

I do think it’s a conscious acting choice, that he makes Spencer more sincere and vulnerable around them. He’s really so good and impressive. He and Trina have a great chemistry but that storyline moves like molasses. 

Sonny and Carly are sooo boring. I ff their scenes together but I’m actually kind of into this situation with Nina. Maybe it’s because it’s new and it brings something out in Mo that I haven’t seen in many years. I just think S/C are way more interesting apart, especially when they aren’t talking about each other. So the Carly and Joss scenes were ff material too